Thoughts on Re-watching The Impossible Astronaut and Day of the Moon

[kerravonsen]

In preparation for the upcoming 6x08, I'm trying to re-watch this season's Doctor Who all in one day... which I probably won't manage. But here's some random-ish thoughts about the first two episodes.

2011: (I say that date because River refers to the Doctor's death as occurring in 2011)
Amy and Rory are at home being domestic, haven't seen the Doctor for "months".
Blue envelope #3 arrives, they dash off to "the middle of nowhere".
Do we know where? I can't remember if anyone said where it was.
I think it's somewhere in the USA, Nevada or Utah or some place like that, because:
(a) you don't get landscape like that in the UK, it looks like a mid-west desert.
(b) Canton drove up in what is presumably his own transport... and I'm assuming here that he hasn't emigrated elsewhere, which I suppose is a big assumption. Oh well.

I had forgotten that Amy saw a Silent at the picnic.
This is interesting, because it means that either it was a time-travelling Silent (if they have time-travel, which I'm only 50/50 on), or even though people have been killing Silent since 1969, there are still some of them around.

Note that Blue envelopes 2,3 and 4 specified a rendezvous at the stop the bus left Amy and Rory, Blue Envelope #1 specified the diner, and a later time. Of course, because it wouldn't do for the Doctor to meet himself.

However, it is also noteworthy that, even though they didn't tell the 909-year-old Doctor what was going to happen, the 1100-year-old Doctor was not surprised by what happened, which means that someone must have told him at some point.

1969:
When was Amy kidnapped and replaced by the Silent?
Theories:
1) It was during the three months that Amy, Rory and River were on the run.
2) It was when she vanished at the children's home and they left behind her recorder.

While #2 seemed the obvious time to me, I realized on this re-watch that it's not possible, because Amy sees the one-eyed woman at the hatch at the children's home before she is kidnapped. Which means that it is the doppelganger-Amy who is kidnapped. But why kidnap her if they already have a doppelganger in place? I'd suggest continuity error, except that we know that Moffat doesn't make mistakes like that.

We know that it is doppelganger-Amy by the end of "The Day of the Moon" because the Doctor scans her and she is/isn't pregnant.

It is unclear how long Amy was in the hands of the Silent, because they said she had been there for "many many days", which could be months, or it could be less.

I'm still unsure whether the thing the Silent at the White House ordered Amy to do - to tell the Doctor "something he should know and something he shouldn't know" - is that she was supposed to tell him that she's pregnant, or tell him that he's going to die. Thing is, that order was so vague, that it could be either or both.

I still think that the little girl is Amy's child, because of the picture of Amy holding a baby, in the midst of all the other photos of the little girl at the children's home.

An interesting observation: the moment that Amy was kidnapped was also the moment when the little girl escaped from the space suit. And then we see the little girl regenerating in New York (did I remember that right?) six months later.

Some theories about the nature of the little girl:
1) she's Amy and Rory's daughter, affected by time travel when Amy was pregnant.
2) she's Amy and the Doctor's daughter, because she has Time Lord abilities. I think this is a red herring, really, because of the whole thing about "stupid face" and Rory thinking Amy was saying that it was the Doctor she loved and not him; that was also meant to make us think that too.
3) something else, such as genetic manipulation by the Silent.

Comments

[sahiya.livejournal.com]

The beginning of the ep takes place in Utah, I believe. Or at least, that's where it was filmed.

However, it is also noteworthy that, even though they didn't tell the 909-year-old Doctor what was going to happen, the 1100-year-old Doctor was not surprised by what happened, which means that someone must have told him at some point.

Yeah, Amy tells him in "The Almost People," when she thinks she's talking to the ganger Doctor.

I think Amy was kidnapped during the three month gap, personally. It could have been earlier than that, but I don't think so. There's a lot about that three month gap that I'd like to know more about, actually, and it's the sort of thing Moffat might go back to eventually, but I wouldn't put money on it.

The little girl could also be River and the Doctor's daughter. This is my favorite theory, but at this point I think she'll probably turn out to be River/Melody herself.

[kerravonsen]

Yeah, Amy tells him in "The Almost People," when she thinks she's talking to the ganger Doctor.

I'd forgotten about that. See, I really do need to do a re-watch!
But I thought she only almost told him, and certainly not any details.

but at this point I think she'll probably turn out to be River/Melody herself

Evidence?

[sahiya.livejournal.com]

No, she definitely tells him, and at the end of the ep he makes a joke to the ganger Doctor about inviting himself to his own death (or something similar) that makes it clear he's put the pieces together.

My evidence for the little girl being River/Melody is . . . well, more of a gut instinct than anything else. I would really like it to be more complicated than that; there was some meta posted while the first half was still airing that I adored and which suggested that the little girl was River and the Doctor's daughter from a timeline that was cut short when the Doctor was killed in "The Impossible Astronaut." This would be a very Moffat thing to do; one of his main themes, if you look at his work overall (not just DW), is parenthood. Obviously he's exploring this via Amy and Rory, but I feel like the set-up with River is leading us toward the possibility of exploring it with the Doctor himself. (That cot in "A Good Man Goes to War" points in this direction as well.)

But . . . well, I was one of the people who was rather disappointed by the predictability of the River twist at the end of AGMGTW, so I'm trying not to get my hopes up. At this point, I think that the child is probably River, which is assumption that we the viewers are clearly meant to make, but there will be all sorts of other timey wimey shenanigans we can't possibly predict that will make it less obvious and predictable.

[kerravonsen]

There's one other piece of evidence which I recalled just now, something which again might be a red herring: River saying that she had murdered the best man she ever knew, and a lot of people were wondering if that was the Doctor.

IF
River murdered the Doctor
IF
the person in the space-suit is the little girl (grown up)
THEN
River is the little girl.

[sahiya.livejournal.com]

Oh well, yes, there is that. But my money is on that being a red herring. I actually think that the good man in question is Rory; this is based on River's reaction to seeing him in AGMGTW, the fact that the Doctor clearly states (also in AGMGTW) that he is not a good man, and the voiceover narration of the poem at the end of that same episode. When River's voice talks about "demons run," the Doctor is shown running, but when she talks about "a good man goes to war," the shot is of Rory.

Also, Rory keeps dying (almost). This is not a coincidence.

[kerravonsen]

Hmmmm. I still think it's the Doctor, but you have point.

[kalypso-v.livejournal.com]

I first raised the possibility that the good man might be Rory last year, and I think there are a lot of clues pointing in that direction... though of course that might mean Rory is the red herring, and it's really the Doctor after all. I'm sure Moffat intends there to keep the fans in doubt as to which one he intends until the last possible moment.

Apart from the deliberate ambiguity in Amy's various speeches this season, there's been some sort of confusion between the two from their very first episode, when Rory said Amy used to make him dress up as the Doctor. (I think it's significant that it never occurs to Amy to make a pass at the Doctor once Rory is removed from the timeline, when you'd think she might have fewer inhibitions about it. Her flirting doesn't start again until the wedding.)

[brendanpodger.livejournal.com]

In A Good Man Goes to War, the Dr and the Silurian are looking at the data from Amy's pregnancy and the Dr is pooh poohing the possibility that the child might have picked up Time Lordishness since it took the TLs so long to evolve the ability. He then admits the newly concieved child could have been exposed to the Time Vortex on Rory and Amy's wedding night.

[kerravonsen]

Yes, but I hadn't actually seen AGMGTW until just now.

[kalypso-v.livejournal.com]

I originally thought they'd rescued the wrong Amy in Day of the Moon, but in A Good Man Goes to War the Doctor suggested it was before they went to America, which fits with the first sighting of Frances Barber. This seems a bit sneaky, because it doesn't give us a chance to spot the swap, unless they revisit the three-month gap.

[kerravonsen]

which fits with the first sighting of Frances Barber

Who? What?

[kalypso-v.livejournal.com]

Sorry, was rushing so couldn't be bothered to look up the character's name... Madame Kovarian, apparently. Lady with eye-patch.

[kerravonsen]

I thought the first sighting of her was in the children's home?

[kalypso-v.livejournal.com]

Yes. The sighting implies that Amy has already been captured at that point, and it's Ganger Amy who's exploring the children's home; in which case it's Ganger Amy who's captured by the Silence and then rescued, fitting the Doctor's later claim that the swap occurred before they went to America. (So they did rescue the "wrong" Amy, but the same one that they'd just lost.)

[jhall1.livejournal.com]

However, it is also noteworthy that, even though they didn't tell the 909-year-old Doctor what was going to happen, the 1100-year-old Doctor was not surprised by what happened, which means that someone must have told him at some point.

My theory is that the 1100 year-old Doctor knew that he was going to die, and for some reason that we don't yet know wanted Amy, Rory and River to see it. I have another theory: that the ganger Doctor didn't die when we think he did, and that it's actually his death that we witness rather than the real Doctor's. The only snag with that idea is that we've seen what happens to a Flesh entity when they die, and the Doctor's death didn't fit that pattern.

[kerravonsen]

The only snag with that idea is that we've seen what happens to a Flesh entity when they die, and the Doctor's death didn't fit that pattern.

However, in "The Almost People" the Doctor said that travelling in the TARDIS stabilized them. Which means it could still be the 'ganger-Doctor. But I don't think it is. Moffat has been too adamant that it was the real Doctor that died.

The main thing that bothers me about that is that if they're really going with "the Doctor dies forever at 1100 in his 11th incarnation" then they've locked themselves in to never having another Doctor after Matt Smith. Which doesn't seem to me like the kind of thing the BBC would want to do.

[kalypso-v.livejournal.com]

The Doctor did a bit of muttering about "Time can be rewritten" at the end of Flesh and Stone, though you'd think his death would be a fixed point.

I can't see the BBC wanting to stop at this point, however, and I've always assumed there'd be some hand-waving at the end of the Thirteenth Doctor's career, assuming the show was still a money-spinner. (It would be silly not to make a big drama out of the thirteenth regeneration and whether it can be done or not.)

[sahiya.livejournal.com]

The handwaving is easy. The twelve regenerations limitation was always artificially imposed by the Time Lords . . . which don't exist anymore. There's no real reason - as far as I can tell, based on what I know of classic Who - that the Doctor has to stop regenerating; the Master, for instance, was on his sixteenth or seventeenth regeneration by the time he died? Something like that, I'm a little unclear on the details. But there's no reason to stop with Thirteen unless the BBC wants to.

ETA: Also, Sexy the TARDIS's remark about having archived about thirty different control rooms indicates that he probably won't, since he only tends to change the "desktop theme" after a regeneration.

[kalypso-v.livejournal.com]

Oh, I'm sure it's easy to talk round, but as I said I think it would be silly not to make a fuss about it when it happens. In particular, I would make sure that the relevant companion finds out about the limit, so that from then on the emotional stakes are higher every time it looks as if he might be killed (as well as introducing the idea to new viewers).

[sahiya.livejournal.com]

The show isn't ending. Moffat has something up his sleeve, I'm absolutely certain. This makes for a bit of false tension, but there's quite a lot of that in fiction, so I'm going to forgive them that.

[jhall1.livejournal.com]

No, I am sure that they have a loophole in mind.

[jhall1.livejournal.com]

Oh, and I'm delighted with your "Peter Pan and Wendy" icon, as the resemblance had occurred to me too.

[kerravonsen]

\o/