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kerravonsen

Tipping is an affront to democracy!

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From:

mistraltoes.livejournal.com

Well, how about if I just lean a little?

From:

kerravonsen

*snort* *snorfle*

From:

reveilles.livejournal.com

So: why? Why is tipping an affront to democracy?

Inquiring minds want to know

From:

kerravonsen

Seriously... I do find it an affront to egalitarianism anyway.

Tipping is a combination of begging and bribing. Folks beg for tips because they aren't paid enough, and that's an affront because a decent day's work should get a decent day's pay. And it's bribing because it's saying "well, I'm not going to give you good service unless you bribe me to do so."

And looking at it from the other end, giving someone a tip isn't egalitarian either, because it's like an aristocrat paying one of the lower classes -- it's demeaning!

This outburst was brought about by seeing a jar labelled "tips" in the bakery down the street from where I work. I thought, huh, this is a bakery, what the heck do they need tips for? Actually, I recall now that it is a combination bakery/cafe, therefore the staff double as waiters, but at the time I was just "huh?".

Maybe I'm just reflecting my culture, as Australia is a Western nation with probably the least amount of tipping (well, New Zealand is probably similar) -- it's restricted only to restaurants of a certain class, otherwise it just isn't done. So of course Australians are notorious around the world as being very bad tippers, but it just isn't part of our culture. And a jolly good thing too! 8-P

Yes, I know, you're going to say "but tipping is a way of rewarding a job well done" -- but can't you see that that's demeaning? The customer shouldn't be the one to reward the employee (except with praise) -- it's up to the employer to reward good employees, because good employees make a good business.
And the problem with tips is that, where tips are employed, you're expected to give the person money whether their service was extra-good or just ordinary. That's why it feels more like a bribe to me.

From:

http://users.livejournal.com/_finn_/

People like pizza delivery boys? They definitely do not get fantastic wages, and, sometimes we order pizza on nights where we really don't want to go out... And when the pizza arrives in the pouring rain, we tip the delivery boy lots, cause we are definitely grateful that he went all that way in that weather for us (and also cause some of us have done the job before and know just how well it pays...) Perhaps call it gratuiuty, rather than tipping? =)

From:

kerravonsen

Being badly paid isn't a reason to tip someone, it's a reason for the union to go on strike. 8-P
And if there isn't a union, form one.
And if you aren't allowed to form one, then overthrow the government...

Pouring rain? Um, are your pizza delivery persons riding bicycles perchance? Because generally over here, such things are delivered by adults driving cars...

From:

http://users.livejournal.com/_finn_/

Well, yes, but it's still not an easy job to drive about at night in the pouring rain searching for a house, then get soaked trying to get to the door etc. You know, the nights you wouldn't send a dog out on?

And generally the pizza delivery people for the chains over here are teenagers looking to make some pocket money.

Still, all your methods of fighting the lack of payment are ones that are usable by the employers or employees. Not the consumer themselves. Why is it so bad that I want to show that I appreciate the effort the person has gone to to make my dining (or whatever) experience that much better than a 'standard' service? I am likely to tip a well paid chef for a fantastic meal as I am someone who makes minimum wage. As a consumer, I certainly expect a certain level of service from the waitstaff, but if they go out of their way to make my dinner/whatever a better experience, I want to tell them I appreciate the effort in a way that is more concrete than a pat on the head and thanks.

I can agree with you, certainly with a '10% mandatory' tip style of tipping, or the 'public holiday' surcharge, but tipping for appreciations sake isn't a bad thing at all.

From:

kerravonsen

To elaborate a bit more...
There doesn't seem to be a case where tips are employed only for extraordinary service; where tips are employed, one is expected to give them for ordinary service as well.

From:

http://users.livejournal.com/_finn_/

heh, see above =)

From:

reveilles.livejournal.com

Though I am an American, I agree with you! I think it's horrible that restaurants pay wait-staff "half-pay" or whatever ridiculous arrangement they've managed to get away with. The employers should be paying the employees, not the customers acting in a tight, uncomfortable balance with anxious-to-please wait-staff. I hate not leaving a tip to punish a "bad" waiter; there are so many things that are out of a waiter's control (kitchen is backed up; food is not cooked directly by the waiter, so don't blame them for the quality, etc.), that I have usually gotten into arguments with friends who didn't want to leave a tip because of bad service. It only makes the waiter's day even worse. I used to deliver pizza; tips were most of my livelihood.