Doctor Who: The End of Time (part 2)

[kerravonsen]

Well, that sucked a lot less than I expected it to. Maybe RTD writes best when he's killing off a Doctor. Or else it was simply that I've learned to expect that the second part of two-part season finales by RTD will be huge in the suckage department.

The plot made somewhat more sense in this half; of course, there were stupid things (how could the Lord President throw a diamond to Earth? And what is a White Star Diamond anyway?) but the idea of sending a signal of a Time Lord heartbeat back in time so that the Master would pick it up through the Untempered Schism, that is good enough that I'll almost forgive RTD for inventing The Drums in the first place.

(Of course, it puts the kybosh on the plot for my Jo-and-Master story, but I suspected that the story would have ended up contradicting canon anyway. The problem is that I think, in this case, RTD's idea is better than mine, which makes me want to give up on the whole thing.)

I wish I could remember the exact speech the Doctor made when he was describing what went on in the final days of the Time War; the creeping horrors and the kings of might-have-been, and so on. It was a good speech.

I suspect (as I'm sure many do) that The Woman was Romana. Who was the other Time Lord who dissented, I wonder? And what was it that the Lord President said about Weeping Angels?

It does and does not make sense that the Lord President at the end of the Time War was Rassilon. It doesn't make sense, of course, if one is sticking to OldWho canon, where Rassilon is sitting there in the Dark Tower being wise and immortal. However, if one considers Big Finish canon, where Rassilon was painted as a powerful, obsessed, dangerous egoist, then I could see that (a) very desperate Time Lords might bring him back to lead them even if they were breaking a few laws of time along the way, and (b) he wouldn't think twice about destroying Time in order to save his life (for differing values of "life").

And it casts the Doctor's actions in the Time War into a completely different light: it isn't survivor's guilt, it's the guilt of being judge, jury and executioner. But of course he had to act. How could the destruction of Time be sanctioned in any way? It makes what the Daleks tried to do in the previous season finale look positively benign in comparison, and I'd thought that RTD couldn't top that. Now that I think about it, the Doctor hasn't just been mourning the death of the Time Lords, but their death of soul that happened well before their bodies were destroyed.

I loved the interaction between the Doctor and the Master in this part; especially the scene where the Doctor is asking the Master to come with him to explore the universe. Plus the gun-scene where the Doctor keeps switching between aiming at the Master and aiming at Rassilon. And I loved the "get out of the way" thing that both of them did for each other. Did the Master burn himself out attacking Rassilon? We didn't really see what happened to the Master, did we?

He will knock four times. I got a chill when I heard that knock and realized that it was Wilf. And then the whole Wilf not wanting the Doctor to die for him, and of course we knew that the Doctor would, but it was so touching, the Doctor's whole speech about how it wasn't fair; but you could see that he was choosing the kind of person he wanted to be, that it wasn't fair that he die, but how could he walk away and still be himself?

That has to be the longest-put-off regeneration in the history of the universe.

Again we got a huge long after-climax sort of epilogue like we got last year, but this time around it was better, I think. "My reward," he said. To save the life of and see companions for one last time. Martha & Mickey, Luke & Sarah-Jane, Donna & Wilf, Jack & Alonzo (that was the Alonzo from The Titanic, wasn't it?), Rose-from-before-they-met. Saying goodbye to his life.

Interesting that they dropped Tom completely and married Martha off to Mickey. They seemed to make a good team, though why they would fall for each other I'm not sure.

I've mostly talked about the later part of the episode because that was the most interesting part. All that faffing about on the spaceship, and the silly rescue of the Doctor while he was still strapped in a chair, well...

What happened with Donna, really? A lot of hand-waving, I think. Par for the course, I suppose.

What is it with RTD and babbling prophets? He did that last year too.

I think we can be reasonably certain that the Time Lords are well and truly deaded.

"Oh, I'm crashing! Geronimooooo!"
The jury is out on Matt Smith. Okay, so we know he can do quirky and hyper, but I'm getting a little tired of hyper... We shall see, we shall see.

Regarding my previous speculations:
* Okay, we now know why the Time Lords wanted to end Time.
* The Woman was a Time Lord, and was Good.
* Wilf didn't shoot anyone, and neither did the Doctor.
* Wilf didn't die.
* Donna didn't die.
* The Master wasn't shot, though he may or may not be dead.
* The Time Lords were behind the Drums.
* It was very emo. But in a good way.

So, now we have to wait until Spring.

At some point I should catch up with Torchwood. Then I expect there will be a lot of fic to read.

Comments

[tptigger]

That woman (who I sincerely hope was NOT Romana) and the other guy with the covered faces were the two who voted against what the Time Lords were doing, and the Lord President said they would have to face their shame "like the weeping angels of old" for dissenting.

Oh, hai, President Bush, I knew you were evil, but this is ridiculous.

[kerravonsen]

That woman (who I sincerely hope was NOT Romana) and the other guy with the covered faces were the two who voted against what the Time Lords were doing,
Yes, I realized that. I just wondered if the other one was someone we knew.

they would have to face their shame "like the weeping angels of old" for dissenting.

Ah.

who I sincerely hope was NOT Romana
I've seen a lot of speculation that it was Susan, which I guess would make as much sense as Romana.

[tptigger]

I don't know Susan as well, but given the era, she might have been like that. And the few episodes of her I've seen, she might've taken the civil disobedience route. I just can't see Romana taking anything like that that calmly.

[astrogirl2.livejournal.com]

Maybe RTD writes best when he's killing off a Doctor.

That may well be the case. I mean, I kind of liked "Parting of the Ways."

Or else it was simply that I've learned to expect that the second part of two-part season finales by RTD will be huge in the suckage department.

Yeah, low expectations certainly helped me enjoy it more. :)

It doesn't make sense, of course, if one is sticking to OldWho canon, where Rassilon is sitting there in the Dark Tower being wise and immortal.

Oh, I think even OldWho canon strongly hints that Rassilon had a dark'n'scary side, and probably wasn't someone you'd like to meet in a dark alley. The prospect of disturbing him certainly made the Doctor nervous, and his method of dealing with people who came looking for the secret of immortality was, frankly, kind of horrific.

We didn't really see what happened to the Master, did we?

Nope, but I think I'm going to bet on him not being dead. ;)

Which leads me to...

I think we can be reasonably certain that the Time Lords are well and truly deaded.

I don't think that's ever a safe bet on Doctor Who. :)

[kerravonsen]

Nope, but I think I'm going to bet on him not being dead.
Depending on whether Simm wants to come back again, I expect.

I don't think that's ever a safe bet on Doctor Who.
Darn.

[astrogirl2.livejournal.com]

Depending on whether Simm wants to come back again, I expect.

Or not. The great thing about Time Lords is that they're not limited by casting. :)

[jcobleigh.livejournal.com]

At some point I should catch up with Torchwood.

You should. Children of Earth was really solid science-fiction that makes you think since it posed challenging ethical questions. I find it hard to believe that RTD could write both it and The End of Time.

[kerravonsen]

I've heard completely opposite views of Torchwood; when I was talking with tptigger, she urged me not to watch it. However, considering that I'd heard from other parties that it was "harrowing but good", I expect she didn't like it for the "harrowing" part. And when I asked the other parties "oh but if it's harrowing, maybe I don't wanna", they said "if you could cope with Blake's 7, you can cope with this". Which means, I expect, that there will be Character Deaths. And possibly the "destruction of Torchwood" if a throwaway line in "The End of Time 1" is referring to "Children of Earth" rather than "Doomsday". We shall see.

I find it hard to believe that RTD could write both it and The End of Time.
Maybe he had help? Or advice? Thing is, the very first episode of Torchwood was good, IMHO, so the potential was there. My impression of RTD is that he's very good at characterisation and not very good at plot logic, which means that if the plot starts with a single SF-ish "what-if" and then follows through with the characters' reaction to that, he could probably do a good job.

(i like your icon)

[jcobleigh.livejournal.com]

I've heard completely opposite views of Torchwood

I should have qualified my statement. You probably don't have to catch up on Torchwood, but I'd recommend Children of Earth in particular. My wife and I plan to get Children of Earth on DVD at some point. I don't think, however, we're going to get the rest of Torchwood.

(i like your icon)

Thanks. My wife, reveilles made it for me.

[kerravonsen]

Oh, I was referring to Children of Earth specifically; I've already seen Seasons 1 and 2 of Torchwood. Hmmm, maybe that was what Tigger was referring to; I know that Season 1 of Torchwood was crap (apart from the first episode).

[watervole.livejournal.com]

Catch up with Torchwood. Children of Earth really does go with the moral decisions - it forces hard logical decisions that most shows would never allow to happen.

It's the kind of story that Star Trek could never have done.

[kerravonsen]

Hence the "harrowing". How similar is it to the Torchwood episode - darn, I can't remember the name - the one where Gwen discovered that the Rift wasn't one-way, and people vanished, and sometimes they came back... damaged. That was so hard and sad and mature. Adult writing in the grown-up sense, not the sexual sense.

[vilakins.livejournal.com]

I find that surprisingly better than I was fearing, even if the Doctor was emo and self-pitying. Yes, he had to save Wilf, or he wouldn't be himself, but he remembers all his lives, so why the fear? Anyway, it ended amazingly upbeat for RTD so I'm left feeling satisfied despite all the flaws.

I'm even pleased about Donna. She'll regain her self-esteem now she's happy, and she won't miss her exciting life. Though I'd have liked a Donna Noble Adventures series. ;-)

Surely not spring. That's almost a year. Isn't the series coming back in our autumn?

[kerravonsen]

but he remembers all his lives, so why the fear?
Because remembering isn't the same as being.

Surely not spring. That's almost a year. Isn't the series coming back in our autumn?
Yes, our autumn, their spring. That's what I meant. Because I was quoting them, and they said "spring". Call it brain-freeze.

[jhall1.livejournal.com]

I think we can be reasonably certain that the Time Lords are well and truly deaded.

I wouldn't bet on it, Nothing is ever final in Who. :)

As for Matt Smith, my first impression was quite favourable. Oddly, I thought that if anything he came across as less hyper than David Tennant's Doctor.