Doctor Who 4x06 "The Doctor's Daughter"
May. 11th, 2008 08:39 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
kerravonsenSo, here we have the Doctor's Daughter. Really lame title, though I guess it was a selling point, or something. Or a distraction.
I Told You So:
Jenny was a clone! Sort of. Not a natural daughter, anyway.
And she did die. I thought she would die. It's almost a formula: the more time people spend talking about being invited into the TARDIS (rather than being invited along at the last minute), the more likely they are to die. Maybe I should call it the Astrid Syndrome.
Okay, so I was wrong:
So she wasn't a clone made from the Hand, she wasn't made by anyone on earth, she wasn't a Sinister Plot.
And she also un-died.
Plot:
I liked the idea of a mythic war that was only seven days old. With instant soldiers pre-programmed for war, then it does become a plausible consequence; not extremely plausible, but enough for me to hang my suspension of disbelief upon. I loved the irony of it. Because if all data is lost, and there is nobody left alive who knows the truth, then seven days or seven hundred years, the truth will still be lost. Chinese whispers.
"They're not ruined, they're unpopulated."
(goes and looks up Wikipedia) Written by Stephen Greenhorn. Hmmmm. He also wrote "The Lazarus Experiment", which wasn't half as good, IMHO. I wonder why the difference?
Jenny's revival: I really didn't see that coming. I was expecting her to die all along, and when she died, I thought that was the end of it. But they managed to have their cake and eat it too; because we still have the tragedy of her death, and the elation of her revival, and the one isn't negated by the other, because the Doctor doesn't know that she's alive.
Characterisation:
I actually liked Jenny. I didn't expect to. In some ways, she's even more of a Mary-Sue than the Doctor is. But I loved the way she kept on calling him on things, and Donna stood back and enjoyed it. And I loved how she was bright and enthusiastic and sort of child-like in that enthusiasm, and how she went from gung-ho soldier to gung-ho world-saver. And how she stood up for herself. And how she had the light of discovery in her eyes at the "I could have killed him, but I didn't! I had a choice!"
And then that scene at the end, where she recited what Donna had told her: "Seeing new worlds, saving planets, and lots of running!" Yes, it was so Mary-Sue, but it was so cool too.
And, yes, it was cool that Georgia Moffett (who played Jenny) is Peter Davison's daughter. But it wouldn't have been cool if she hadn't done a good job at it.
I expect there to be much fanfic about the Adventures of Jenny. And I expect that fanfic is the only place we're going to see Jenny again.
It was a very interesting point that Jenny pointed out, of the Doctor and Donna, "You two, you keep on thinking" (unlike the soldiers around her). I mean, no surprise that the Doctor keeps on questioning and thinking aloud, but Donna, indeed, was doing so also, and one doesn't think of her as the kind that does... except that it certainly is in her character to keep on asking and asking questions, not because of intellectual curiosity so much as subbornness and not taking no for an answer.
Donna, Donna, you got to shine again with your amazing Temping skills! And she not only niggled about the numbers, she asked other good questions, like "Why build windows?" (Not that other companions wouldn't have asked that; many of them would have.)
And I loved how Donna wouldn't let the Doctor get away with saying that Jenny wasn't his daughter. And that scene about the two hearts, yes.
Martha: I liked how she went into doctor mode and helped the Hath soldier; how she kept her head, and kept her head, and it wasn't until the Hath soldier died that she lost it. IMHO, I think it was a flashback for her to the Year That Wasn't, and how many people died then. Because back then, she'd kept it all in, survival mode. But here, it was too much. Maybe some people feel that that's character assassination for Martha, but I don't think so. I think it was reasonable and made sense. Mind you, it does make me wonder if working for UNIT might be too much for her, except that, I suppose, as a doctor, she's not going to be on the front lines quite so much. And maybe it wasn't so much that the soldier died, but that he'd become a sort of friend, and died saving her life.
Awww, Doctor. I liked his journey from rejection to acceptance and then loss. "She's not a Time Lord." "All that's dead, it died a long time ago."
But actually, I really thought that he'd shoot Cobb and that Donna would have to stop him.
"There's always something worth living for." Though I think he only half believed that. Three quarters?
Nice little gesture there at the end, of Martha looking at her ring and then going eagerly into the house. She's found her own "something worth living for". I don't think were're going to see Martha again. (sigh)
Style:
They're really fond of golden lightshows, aren't they?
Good industrial grunge sets there. The Wikipedia entry said that some people complained about the corridors and claustrophobic feel, but that's part of what made it good!
Not so sure about the Hath, they seemed a bit clunky.
Questions:
How come General Cobb had grey hair? If he'd been an insta-soldier, surely he wouldn't have had time to grow that old? But if he'd been one of the original colonists, he would have known what the source was and what the numbers were for, and it was obvious he didn't. Guess we blame the casting department for that one. It's tricky, because if they'd cast someone young, he wouldn't have had the gravitas needed for the part.
Yes, the whole cloning thing was handwavy. Not only instant cloning, but instant clothing! Not to mention the problems of where they got all that ordinance. Oh well.
What sort of language did the Hath have? Surely the TARDIS ought to have made Martha able to understand them? But instead we got this mime-art. Mind you, I liked the mime-art, it was effective; gave good atmosphere with one-sided conversations, added to the tension.
Why did the plans of the city have a hidden part? Who hid them? I mean, the original plans, there wouldn't have been any reason to hide them, surely? And the people with the knowledge to hide them would have been killed off. Unless it was done on the first day of the war?
Ah, now here's an interesting theory: somebody from outside hated the idea of a peaceful colony of Hath and humans, and sabotaged the colony before it set off, by getting into the computers and (a) setting a trap to assassinate the charismatic colony leader and (b) setting the reproduction machines, which had been intended to create the population for the colony, intended to create people pre-programmed with skills needed by a new colony, instead to pre-program them with the skills needed by soldiers; and then sit back and let the colony self-destruct. This possibly could explain where all the guns and ammunition came from, too.
Next week looks like fun. And a nice change of pace, too.
I Told You So:
Jenny was a clone! Sort of. Not a natural daughter, anyway.
And she did die. I thought she would die. It's almost a formula: the more time people spend talking about being invited into the TARDIS (rather than being invited along at the last minute), the more likely they are to die. Maybe I should call it the Astrid Syndrome.
Okay, so I was wrong:
So she wasn't a clone made from the Hand, she wasn't made by anyone on earth, she wasn't a Sinister Plot.
And she also un-died.
Plot:
I liked the idea of a mythic war that was only seven days old. With instant soldiers pre-programmed for war, then it does become a plausible consequence; not extremely plausible, but enough for me to hang my suspension of disbelief upon. I loved the irony of it. Because if all data is lost, and there is nobody left alive who knows the truth, then seven days or seven hundred years, the truth will still be lost. Chinese whispers.
"They're not ruined, they're unpopulated."
(goes and looks up Wikipedia) Written by Stephen Greenhorn. Hmmmm. He also wrote "The Lazarus Experiment", which wasn't half as good, IMHO. I wonder why the difference?
Jenny's revival: I really didn't see that coming. I was expecting her to die all along, and when she died, I thought that was the end of it. But they managed to have their cake and eat it too; because we still have the tragedy of her death, and the elation of her revival, and the one isn't negated by the other, because the Doctor doesn't know that she's alive.
Characterisation:
I actually liked Jenny. I didn't expect to. In some ways, she's even more of a Mary-Sue than the Doctor is. But I loved the way she kept on calling him on things, and Donna stood back and enjoyed it. And I loved how she was bright and enthusiastic and sort of child-like in that enthusiasm, and how she went from gung-ho soldier to gung-ho world-saver. And how she stood up for herself. And how she had the light of discovery in her eyes at the "I could have killed him, but I didn't! I had a choice!"
And then that scene at the end, where she recited what Donna had told her: "Seeing new worlds, saving planets, and lots of running!" Yes, it was so Mary-Sue, but it was so cool too.
And, yes, it was cool that Georgia Moffett (who played Jenny) is Peter Davison's daughter. But it wouldn't have been cool if she hadn't done a good job at it.
I expect there to be much fanfic about the Adventures of Jenny. And I expect that fanfic is the only place we're going to see Jenny again.
It was a very interesting point that Jenny pointed out, of the Doctor and Donna, "You two, you keep on thinking" (unlike the soldiers around her). I mean, no surprise that the Doctor keeps on questioning and thinking aloud, but Donna, indeed, was doing so also, and one doesn't think of her as the kind that does... except that it certainly is in her character to keep on asking and asking questions, not because of intellectual curiosity so much as subbornness and not taking no for an answer.
Donna, Donna, you got to shine again with your amazing Temping skills! And she not only niggled about the numbers, she asked other good questions, like "Why build windows?" (Not that other companions wouldn't have asked that; many of them would have.)
And I loved how Donna wouldn't let the Doctor get away with saying that Jenny wasn't his daughter. And that scene about the two hearts, yes.
Martha: I liked how she went into doctor mode and helped the Hath soldier; how she kept her head, and kept her head, and it wasn't until the Hath soldier died that she lost it. IMHO, I think it was a flashback for her to the Year That Wasn't, and how many people died then. Because back then, she'd kept it all in, survival mode. But here, it was too much. Maybe some people feel that that's character assassination for Martha, but I don't think so. I think it was reasonable and made sense. Mind you, it does make me wonder if working for UNIT might be too much for her, except that, I suppose, as a doctor, she's not going to be on the front lines quite so much. And maybe it wasn't so much that the soldier died, but that he'd become a sort of friend, and died saving her life.
Awww, Doctor. I liked his journey from rejection to acceptance and then loss. "She's not a Time Lord." "All that's dead, it died a long time ago."
But actually, I really thought that he'd shoot Cobb and that Donna would have to stop him.
"There's always something worth living for." Though I think he only half believed that. Three quarters?
Nice little gesture there at the end, of Martha looking at her ring and then going eagerly into the house. She's found her own "something worth living for". I don't think were're going to see Martha again. (sigh)
Style:
They're really fond of golden lightshows, aren't they?
Good industrial grunge sets there. The Wikipedia entry said that some people complained about the corridors and claustrophobic feel, but that's part of what made it good!
Not so sure about the Hath, they seemed a bit clunky.
Questions:
How come General Cobb had grey hair? If he'd been an insta-soldier, surely he wouldn't have had time to grow that old? But if he'd been one of the original colonists, he would have known what the source was and what the numbers were for, and it was obvious he didn't. Guess we blame the casting department for that one. It's tricky, because if they'd cast someone young, he wouldn't have had the gravitas needed for the part.
Yes, the whole cloning thing was handwavy. Not only instant cloning, but instant clothing! Not to mention the problems of where they got all that ordinance. Oh well.
What sort of language did the Hath have? Surely the TARDIS ought to have made Martha able to understand them? But instead we got this mime-art. Mind you, I liked the mime-art, it was effective; gave good atmosphere with one-sided conversations, added to the tension.
Why did the plans of the city have a hidden part? Who hid them? I mean, the original plans, there wouldn't have been any reason to hide them, surely? And the people with the knowledge to hide them would have been killed off. Unless it was done on the first day of the war?
Ah, now here's an interesting theory: somebody from outside hated the idea of a peaceful colony of Hath and humans, and sabotaged the colony before it set off, by getting into the computers and (a) setting a trap to assassinate the charismatic colony leader and (b) setting the reproduction machines, which had been intended to create the population for the colony, intended to create people pre-programmed with skills needed by a new colony, instead to pre-program them with the skills needed by soldiers; and then sit back and let the colony self-destruct. This possibly could explain where all the guns and ammunition came from, too.
Next week looks like fun. And a nice change of pace, too.
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no subject
Date: 2008-05-11 01:33 pm (UTC)I'm almost certain that we will see her agsin. The character is too good to lose. I don't think that she would have undied otherwise.
I thought that her character, so very bright and inquisitive and enthusiastic, was very believable for a descendant of the Doctor. In fact I was rather reminded of the Ninth Doctor in "fantastic" mode. And she has the most msrvellous grin.
no subject
Date: 2008-05-11 09:21 pm (UTC)Not only him, but Ten gets like that, and so does Eight, and in a way so does Four.
no subject
Date: 2008-05-11 07:53 pm (UTC)It was a good idea, but my suspension of disbelief can't help but choke a bit on the time frame. Seven months might have worked better for me.
And I expect that fanfic is the only place we're going to see Jenny again.
I agree with
Maybe some people feel that that's character assassination for Martha, but I don't think so. I think it was reasonable and made sense.
In my own comment on the episode, I praised the way Martha, consistent with her experiences during the Year That Never Was, seems very strong and confident and sure of her ability to do what needs to be done. But I do like the fact that this episode also shows that she hasn't become hardened to the point where a single death doesn't affect her, just to the point where she can pick herself up and carry on afterward. I'm less thrilled with how that scene was filmed, perhaps... It goes on a bit too long and seems a bit too gratuitous. But I like the characterization of it very much. And I agree with you. I think it's the exact opposite of character assassination.
How come General Cobb had grey hair?
This apparently bothered the crap out of one of the friends I was watching with. I'm not sure I would have even thought about it if she hadn't pointed it out. But I figured maybe the machine had malfunctioned a bit when it was making him, and aged him too far. Although now I'm thinking, hey, maybe it was deliberate. Maybe the leader is intentionally produced looking older, to bolster his air of authority, or just to set him apart from the others.
no subject
Date: 2008-05-11 09:34 pm (UTC)Because if it's done badly that would reflect badly on this episode? I'd like to say that it oughtn't to make a difference, but I know what you mean; just like the way Rose's character changed in S2 made me sour on Rose in general, and write AUs.
But if Jenny does return, there's still no way that they're going to make her a companion. Ideally, they'd show her as a grown-up independent of the Doctor. But another alternative would be that they would bring her back only to kill her, and that would annoy me greatly, because I'd rather she'd have simply stayed dead in this episode if that happens.
I'm less thrilled with how that scene was filmed, perhaps... It goes on a bit too long and seems a bit too gratuitous.
It didn't feel that way to me. I just felt it showed that she was deeply affected. Don't forget she was freezing cold and wet, which I think would also affect one's ability to hold it all in.
Maybe the leader is intentionally produced looking older, to bolster his air of authority
The Reproduction Machine is its own casting department! 8-)
no subject
Date: 2008-05-11 10:27 pm (UTC)Because it feels like the first chapter in what ought to be a larger story, mainly. But, yeah, a bad follow-up can certainly damage one's perceptions of what went before.
But if Jenny does return, there's still no way that they're going to make her a companion.
I wouldn't consider it impossible -- it wouldn't be the first time he'd travelled with a family member! -- but it does seem unlikely. I could see her deciding she was happier seeing the universe on her own once she'd started, but getting together with him occasionally to touch base and have an adventure or two with him.
The Reproduction Machine is its own casting department! 8-)
*grin*
no subject
Date: 2008-05-11 10:07 pm (UTC)And instant thick eye make-up for Jenny. I wasn't sure what its military use was.
What sort of language did the Hath have? Surely the TARDIS ought to have made Martha able to understand them?
It was peculiar, because it appeared they could understand her - presumably because the human colonists spoke something close enough to English which they remembered? - and she didn't seem to understand them despite the TARDIS. But in the accompanying documentary, I noticed that in Martha's scenes with the Hath someone shouted out what the Hath was saying (stuff like "I will not let you drown!" and "Goodbye, friend!"). And I wasn't quite sure why they were doing this, because if Martha wasn't supposed to understand it, why did Freema need to know what it was? It wasn't as if the actor playing the Hath had to convey the lines with his face.
no subject
Date: 2008-05-11 10:24 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-05-13 02:27 am (UTC)Protects her eyelids from sunburn.
no subject
Date: 2008-05-13 11:09 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-05-13 11:56 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-05-13 02:02 am (UTC)Donna asking good questions is one of her most endearing feature. What the Doctor and assistant often show us is the value of the outsider's way of approaching problems, of thinking outside the box, of questioning assumptions.