Do stop

[kerravonsen]

Well, I've just found a combination of things that will cause me to stop reading a piece of fanfic, even if it's been recommended and the writing style isn't bad:

(a) Out of the blue, a main character flashing back to a memory of making love to another main character, when, in canon, they weren't a couple (though with the potential to be a couple, they weren't actually a couple).
(b) Too many Americanisms and American-centric-ness when the original series upon which the fanfic is based, is British.

I actually found the latter more irritating than the former; the first bit I can draw mental blinds over, the second is a bit hard to ignore when it keeps happening and happening and throwing me out of the story.

I'm not sure whether I should reveal the name of the offending fic or not.

Comments

[kalinda001.livejournal.com]

(a) and (b) those would be very annoying.

[vilakins.livejournal.com]

I found a lot of the old B7 zines were too American for me. Far too many stories had the crew speaking American (hollering and getting sore), celebrating US holidays, and even playing baseball and basketball. [rolls eyes] I forgive the Bizarro zines though because they're so very funny.

[kerravonsen]

Celebrating US holidays?!? That's just ludicrous. Mind you, I find it difficult to suspend my disbelief when I read B7 fic where they're celebrating any sort of 20th-century holiday (such as Christmas) because it Just Wouldn't Happen. The only "holiday" fic I've ever really found believable has been your own "Festival of Lights" one (which I just love (hugs Vila)). Yours worked because it wasn't a 20th-century holiday, it was the extrapolation of how such a holiday might have evolved over the centuries.

[vilakins.livejournal.com]

Thank you!

Yes, they'd have their own holidays (most of them Federation ones) and the mixed-up remnants of ones people didn't want to give up. I suppose at a stretch, some US ones like Halloween (the most common offender for some reason, maybe because the authors could dress the characters up) might have crept in over the centuries, but in that case I'd add in the Mexican Day of the Dead, Samhain, and possibly other festivals relating to fear or death or time of year, mix it all up, and get something different.

[kerravonsen]

I dare ya to write such a thing! Well, at some point, not now obviously.

[vilakins.livejournal.com]

No thanks. Halloween has been done often enough, and besides, I loathe it. I hate the whole greed and revenge thing; I'm glad it's not done much here.

[kerravonsen]

Good point.

[reapermum.livejournal.com]

I could probably stand a narrative voice being American as long as the characters remained British, and assuming the writing was good.

[kerravonsen]

One of the characters was American (an OC), so it was fine for that character -- but I got irritated at the (slight) distortion of the canon character -- there weren't any howlers from his mouth, he just felt a bit off. There was just... stuff. Well, little things that just irritated. Maybe it wasn't quite Americanisms so much as 20th-century-isms. Well, both. Okay, I'll give the example that irritated me the most:

Starbucks. The TARDIS has plonked down in the 23rd Century, after World War III, mind you, and the Doctor casually remarks that Starbucks is still going strong, as an interstellar franchise. I mean, that's just pointlessly stupid and implausible. Now, I could believe that the Royal Shakespeare Company might still be around, doing interstellar tours, but apart from religions and monarchies and learning institutions, there's not that many things that would last 200 years, let alone after a devastating war.

I gave up when the author's note at the end of the chapter apologized for not having the story betaed or Brit-picked; I figured there was no point, if the author knew that they should have had the fic Brit-picked, and didn't.

[astrogirl2.livejournal.com]

I haven't read the story in question, but, out of context, the Starbucks thing sounds to me like it's meant to be humorous. I mean, the ubiquity of Starbucks is something of a running pop-cultural gag...

But, in any case, I'm generally with you on this one. 20th-century-isms irritate the heck out of me when they don't belong. Even in otherwise excellent stories, it can throw me out of the story a bit if, say, a 35th century character is eating a Snickers bar. :)

[kalypso-v.livejournal.com]

B7 characters drinking coffee stretches my credulity.

[astrogirl2.livejournal.com]

But that's canon! :)

[kerravonsen]

but, out of context, the Starbucks thing sounds to me like it's meant to be humorous. I mean, the ubiquity of Starbucks is something of a running pop-cultural gag...

An American pop-cultural gag, though. I don't know if it was meant to be funny, but if it was, I would have thought the American (20th Century) character would have remarked on it... it wasn't played as a gag in the story, anyway.

Even in otherwise excellent stories, it can throw me out of the story a bit if, say, a 35th century character is eating a Snickers bar.

And I think that kind of thing is more frustrating, because, hey, opportunity for invention of weird culinary delicacies and they've blown it. One of the things I do enjoy about New Who (and Old Who) is the things that the Doctor tosses out about alien planets, like dogs with no noses and cultures that communicate with eyebrow-twitches. It's fun!

[laura-holt-pi.livejournal.com]

I read a Blake's 7 story in which Cally, amongst others smoked cigarettes, drank coffee and swore using 20th century words. This was written, as it happens, by someone who objected to my idea of Cally because I didn't make her dark enough.

[kerravonsen]

I guess their idea of "dark" is smoking, drinking coffee and swearing, then. 8-P

[kalinda001.livejournal.com]

I guess their idea of "dark" is smoking, drinking coffee and swearing, then
That's just sad...

[reapermum.livejournal.com]

Why would the Doctor comment on Starbucks, as opposed to any other chain of coffee shops, we don't have that many of them (not round here, anyway)? He'd more likely have referred to the survival of coffee houses since the C18th.

It certainly doesn't sound as if they have kept people in character.

[kerravonsen]

Why would the Doctor comment on Starbucks, as opposed to any other chain of coffee shops, we don't have that many of them (not round here, anyway)?

Yeah, as I said, the ubiquity of Starbucks is an American pop-culture joke, not a British one.

He'd more likely have referred to the survival of coffee houses since the C18th.

Oh, yes, that would have been much more Doctorish!

[astrogirl2.livejournal.com]

I stubbornly insist on using American spelling and punctuation in all my fics, but I think it is terribly important for the dialog to match how the characters talk on the show. And if the story is in a tight POV, it ought to use the kinds of words and images that the character would think in.

I mean, with the B7, characters, say, it perhaps doesn't make all that much sense that they sound like late-20th century British people, when they're actually supposed to be from a thousand years in the future or something, but that's how they do sound, and if you put Americanisms into their mouths, it's just... wrong.

This is one thing I love about writing Farscape. The language of the show itself is a glorious mish-mash of American, Australian and British English, with lots of made up alienisms in the mix. In terms of dialect, at least, it's hard to do it wrong. The specifics of individual character voices, of course, are another matter...

[jinxed-wood.livejournal.com]

*Grins* Out of character dialogue is a big no-no for me; it throws me completely out of a story, and I try not to commit the same offence myself. I'm Irish, so British spelling and punctuation is standard for me, and I could no more leave the U out of 'colour' than leave the T out of 'the'. Nevertheless, I do remember to use 'trunk' instead of 'boot', and 'cookie' instead of 'biscuit', when writing dialogue for American characters, so I expect the same when it's vice-versa.

Sometimes, factual inaccuracies can also annoy me. I was reading a great Stargate/ Highlander story recently, which suddenly the writer transposed the entire cast to Fermanagh (in the Republic of Ireland) and started calling it Britain, and referring to British soldiers and London calling...and you can see where I am going with this.

Now, I realise I'm probably the only one of her readership that realised that her geography was a bit off, but surely if you're going to use a country you're not familiar with, in a story, you should do a wee bit of research?

[reapermum.livejournal.com]

Fermanagh (in the Republic of Ireland) and started calling it Britain

That would really annoy me as well. I'm English, I visited relatives who'd moved back to Ireland (Mayo) this year and it was different, nearly as different as going to France, which made the holiday even better.

[lizamanynames.livejournal.com]

Yeah, the first is just, you know, a different interpretation of canon, really, the second is a mistake in characterization! At the very least, get your character voices right.

Nothing throws me out of a Harry Potter fic faster than one of the characters using american slang, for example.

[aizain.livejournal.com]

My cue to mention something unimportant that's bugged me for years.

It's in Peter Jackson's The Two Towers. You'll remember the moment, with Merry and Pippin in the clutches of the Orc band:

"Well, boys, looks like meat's back on the menu!"

That's no Tolkien line, was my immediate reaction. Uh, uh, Peter, it just goes to show that LOTR is not a cliche you can imitate off-the-cuff with a Hollywood screenwriter's reflexes.

On reflection, there's more to it. Tolkien didn't play up the orcs as cannibals, in fact they don't have any really sensational transgressions (mumble, mumble ... 300 ... . hermaphrodites ... piercings ... amputees ... mumble, mumble) at all. They're just a mob of mean, thoughtless hooligans; and Tolkien has a point with this, that that's all the Shadow needs, in any age.

But anyway, it finally hit me just why that line jarred. When have these orky boys ever seen a menu?

"Carrion looks good tonight."

"They do a really nice offal and chips though."

[kerravonsen]

When have these orky boys ever seen a menu?

Very good point!