Fanfic writer rant

[kerravonsen]

The origins of this rant is rather rambly... First, over at this post we have a bit of a discussion of some other unnamed person's assertion that most fanfic is written by teenagers. In the course of participating in this, I did a google search on "fan fiction", and came across, again, the article How To Write Marginally Readable Fan Fiction, and while I was reading the bit with examples of good similes, I recognised one of them. Could it actually have been something I myself wrote? So I did a search for that phrase, and found not only the story it came from (yes, it was one of mine), but also this mocking article which purpotedly parodies the original article, and does a fairly lame job of it, IMNSHO. The author of this, in his concluding remarks, says:

I look at it this way: People who write fanfiction are in it for a quick writing project that they can start, complete, and publish within a few days at the most. The fact that they're using an existing universe means they don't have to think of new characters or a setting, and don't need to bother introducing it because so many people are already familiar with it. Sure, there are people who take fanfiction writing seriously and put a good share of time and effort into it, but the vast majority isn't going to bother going through even half of the steps this guide listed. For instance, how many people do you honestly believe are going to bother getting a credited proofreader? Rather than write out a huge essay like this that will probably fall on deaf ears, it would have been a better idea to write a shorter, more succinct version that might have actually helped a few people improve their writing skills.

And that makes me want to rant. There are so many places where this person is just so wrong...
S/he assumes that:

1. Fanfiction is written in a few days at the most
   Oh yeah? The last one I finished took about a year to write. And that was NOT a case of, "oh I can't be bothered, I won't work on this for six months" either. The only things I finish in a few days are poems and drabbles.
   
2. The implication that using an existing universe and characters means there's no creativity involved.
   I am so sick and tired of this crap! I guess Shakespeare had no creativity. Neither did Thomas Malory. And Wagner's Ring Cycle had no creativity because it was a retelling of myth. Not to mention every Arthurian novel ever written. Oh, and every single historical novelist that ever lived has no creativity either.
   Repeat after me: Fan fiction is like historical fiction, except that the "history" is a fictional one.
   
3. That there are only a few fanfic writers who take fanfiction writing seriously.
   S/he must hang around fanfiction.net. Actually this person comes across as never having read a decent bit of fanfic ever. Never seen a posting of HLFIC-L or of TPFICT, never been to the Hermit Library, never been to Seventh Dimension, never seen Henneth-Annun, and never looked at the nominees in any of the various fanfic awards out there (such as the Stargate fanfic awards, the Cascade Times awards, the Halo awards, the Spooky awards and so on)
   
4. And that therefore it's a waste of time to write a long article with good advice in it because you need to divide it into tiny bite-sized pieces suitable for the normal dumb idiots that he assumes most fanfic writers are.
   Look, if you think that most of them aren't going to read it, then why not write it for the ones who are going to read it? It's called writing for your audience. The teenyboppers over at fanfiction.net aren't going to read it in a million years, so breaking it up into smaller articles isn't going to help. Besides, the thing is nicely indexed, people can come back and read different sections later if they want. Then again, considering that this person considers that the best way of helping people to improve is to mock them, I wouldn't really say that they had a good grasp on teaching methods.
   

Comments

Hear hear!

[reveilles.livejournal.com]

I heartily agree! My last (significant) piece took me two years to write, and I wrote at a fairly steady pace!

I have had that tiny inkling fear in me that my fan fiction writing implies that I don't have the what-it-takes to write original (read: publishable) fiction. I've also wondered if it provides a crutch so that I don't have to create an original story.

I was much encouraged by your perspective: Fan fiction is like historical fiction, except that the "history" is a fictional one.

My general take on it is that a "publishable" story has never grabbed me and demanded that I write it down. Until that happens, I'm not going to be too choosy with my Muse. :) If people read it and enjoy it, that is enough for me.

(...though it would be nice to make steady money from writing so that I wouldn't have to work at a "real" job. :)

Thank you also for that wonderful list of good fanfic locations. I huge percentage of available fanfic is forgettable; it's nice to have a small set of places to look for reliable stuff.

Re: Hear hear!

[kerravonsen]

I was much encouraged by your perspective: Fan fiction is like historical fiction, except that the "history" is a fictional one.

Yep, it's an analogy I've used for a while now.

My general take on it is that a "publishable" story has never grabbed me and demanded that I write it down. Until that happens, I'm not going to be too choosy with my Muse.

Exactly. Why should I write mainstream fiction if there are no mainstream stories I want to tell (yet)? It's like expecting someone to write haiku when all they want to write is sonnets. (Or visa versa). I've gotten backhanded compliments about that sometimes: "You should be writing real fiction", "You should be illustrating children's books".

Thank you also for that wonderful list of good fanfic locations. I huge percentage of available fanfic is forgettable; it's nice to have a small set of places to look for reliable stuff.

I have to admit, some of the places are more reliable than others. The awards sites are fairly reliable (also check out the Lois & Clark archive, because they integrate the Kerth Awards info with the site -- but you probably know that already, seeing as you have stories there!). I find it's worth looking at nominees to awards as well as winners, because I'm not always going to agree with the majority as to which story was best, but I'm likely to agree as to which stories are better than average.

I listed HLFIC-L and Seventh Dimension simply because I've generally found Highlander fanfic to be on average, more readable than mediocre, though they do have their share of Mary-Sues (and Methos-sues and Richie-sues too). Likewise I've found the standard on TPFICT is fairly good, maybe because Tomorrow People fandom (at least in that circle) tends to attract the more geeky, intelligent crowd, whether they're 13 or 33. Hermit Library is becoming the web archive for Blake's 7 fic, and it includes a number of classics. The archive also has a rating system, so that can help your searches. As for Henneth-Annun, that one is guaranteed to have better-than-average stories in it, because it isn't an open archive; stories have to be approved before they're archived. But LotR fic may not be your thing. Then again, I didn't think it was my thing until I looked there. Not that I read a lot of it, but I do take the occassional peek.

[mistraltoes.livejournal.com]

You know, I just never know what to say to people with this set of stupid, STUPID ideas. I ran into it just last week on my fantasy-writing list. You would think that fantasy writers would know better.

I have found, though, that telling people that I write 'media tie-in fiction at the amateur level' goes over a little bit better than 'fan fiction', particularly as I can cite several authors who went on from writing fan fiction to commercial publication.

You know, I always wonder if the people who rant against fan fiction and say it's not creative have ever actually written any? It's hard to believe they would have so little respect for the amount of creativity involved if they had.

[kerravonsen]

I have found, though, that telling people that I write 'media tie-in fiction at the amateur level' goes over a little bit better than 'fan fiction'

(blinks) But that's just a more pretentious way of describing fanfic. Don't they know that they two are exactly the same thing?

particularly as I can cite several authors who went on from writing fan fiction to commercial publication.

Heh, that's enough for me to start going on another rant. The assumption that something has to be paid for in order for it to be worth anything. One gets this from people who don't understand Open Source software, but it applies to fanfic too. No, I'm not going to go so far as to say that getting filthy lucre for art taints it, but but equating worth with money makes me want to spit chips. True worth is independent of money -- money is just a fortunate side-benefit. No true Art (that is, anything requiring creative talent) will be good unless the Artist focuses on the Art before the Money. Just as I say that being a good programmer is paradoxical -- one won't earn big money for programming unless one isn't in it for the money, because for the most talented programmers, its more of a vocation than a career, if you see what I mean. Likewise with acting, though you do get the ones with pretty faces and little talent, but then outside of Hollywood, acting is more like writing -- you only do it if it's your vocation, because even the best ones don't earn all that much at it. Only the top 1% write bestsellers. Most have a day job.

The Re: Re: Something

[(Anonymous)]

So basically, every fanfiction out there is brilliantly written and productively created? Pardon my French, but, that's total bull. I mean, sure, there's good and well written fanfiction out there. A fair number in fact. And there are quite a few fanfiction authors out there that take their work seriously and actually put some time into it. But for every good fanfiction written out there, a thousand horribly bad and uncreative ones are produced. Try as hard as you will, you can't deny the amount of good fanfiction shrivels when compared to the horrendous amount of bad ones.

That parodying website you mentioned out there is targetted towards those very bad ones: And it does so brilliantly. The webmaster makes this clear at more than one occasion, yet you still feel those comments as personal insults to yourselves. That's nonsense. The insults aren't targeted at you: The amount of productively writing fanfiction authors, and well written fanfictions out there. They are targeted at that much larger group. Tbat group at least a few dozen times larger than yours: The horribly bad fanfiction. ALL, and I mean ALL comments and insult made by that webmaster DO apply when taking those into consideration. And that's what they do. Amd that's what they're aimed at. Not your scarce group of good fanfictions. This site is created to point out BAD fanfiction, not good ones.

So you really have no right to be insulted: Unless you put no work into your fanfictions, and write horribly bad pieces of work, and are trying to deny it. That isn't the case, is it?

Besides that, try and see if ANY of the fanfictions parodied on that website are worthy to be looked upon as well written and productively created.

I rest my case.

Re: The Re: Re: Something

[kerravonsen]

Sure he's talking about bad fanfic. But he sure gives the impression that he doesn't believe that good fanfic exists.

I suspect we're talking at cross-purposes.

Re: The Re: Re: Something

[kerravonsen]

I shall now demonstrate why this is at best, hugely mistaken, and at worst, an unprovoked attack.

So basically, every fanfiction out there is brilliantly written and productively created? Pardon my French, but, that's total bull.
Sarcastic, insulting, putting words into my mouth. Hardly polite.
I mean, sure, there's good and well written fanfiction out there. A fair number in fact. And there are quite a few fanfiction authors out there that take their work seriously and actually put some time into it.
Something we do agree on. Though there is a significant difference between "few" and "quite a few". I think there are quite a few. The author of the parody appears to think there are few.
But for every good fanfiction written out there, a thousand horribly bad and uncreative ones are produced. Try as hard as you will, you can't deny the amount of good fanfiction shrivels when compared to the horrendous amount of bad ones.

But I wasn't talking about the bad fan fiction. I was talking about the good fan fiction. Defending the existance of good fan fiction does not equate to denying the existance of bad fan fiction. However, you are behaving as if it does. Bad logic.

That parodying website you mentioned out there is targetted towards those very bad ones: And it does so brilliantly. The webmaster makes this clear at more than one occasion, yet you still feel those comments as personal insults to yourselves.
Putting words into our mouths again. Bad.
That's nonsense. The insults aren't targeted at you: The amount of productively writing fanfiction authors, and well written fanfictions out there. They are targeted at that much larger group. Tbat group at least a few dozen times larger than yours: The horribly bad fanfiction. ALL, and I mean ALL comments and insult made by that webmaster DO apply when taking those into consideration. And that's what they do. Amd that's what they're aimed at. Not your scarce group of good fanfictions. This site is created to point out BAD fanfiction, not good ones.
The problem with this argument is that the particular non-fiction article which was being parodied, was not bad fan fiction, and was not even a bad article! (And please don't get confused, the article in question was not written by me, it just happened to quote some material written by me, which is how I found it). If a perfectly good non-fiction article about how to improve one's fan-fiction writing is targeted by this paladin-against-badfic, what kind of conclusion can one draw? Especially in the light of this opening paragraph, and I quote:

While my hat goes off to Ms. Nitpicker (I really hope that isn't her real name) for trying to do something about the growing fanfic menace, I can't help but criticize her for leaving out the most important rule of writing fanfiction: Don't do it. Seriously, if you want to write something that badly then be original and think up your own damn characters.

Can you blame me for concluding that he hates all fanfic? Well, you can blame me, you already have.

So you really have no right to be insulted: Unless you put no work into your fanfictions, and write horribly bad pieces of work, and are trying to deny it. That isn't the case, is it?

Except that he appeared to be saying that all fanfic is horribly bad.

Besides that, try and see if ANY of the fanfictions parodied on that website are worthy to be looked upon as well written and productively created.

One was. The one I was talking about! It wasn't fan fiction, it was non-fiction, and it wasn't bad, and it didn't deserve to be parodied. So you can't say that he is beyond reproach.

I rest my case.
I'm afraid you haven't addressed the case at all. There is no case.

OMG!!!

[(Anonymous)]

o-my god guys/gals! calm down it just a p*ss take!! look, if you are that worried about it join the forum and post your objections. but at least LISTEN to the responses you get rather then just sulk on another forum. MAKE YOUSELF's HEARD!!!

Re: OMG!!!

[kerravonsen]

I rest my case. Thus speaketh a boor.

Right

[squeakychris.livejournal.com]

So, because he openly disagrees with you, and expresses this clearly he must, naturally, be wrong? And because you only looked at the part of the website showing your "work" and didn't see the webmaster say that there is some good fanfiction out there means that he didn't say it? I can respect the view that many people disregard most good fanfiction and only comment on the bad ones, i myself enjoy reading fanfics on websites and can vouch that there are some extrememly good authors writing, but, lets be honest, the "bad stuff" really is extremely bad.

Taking the in-famous books of Harry Potter, there are many who enjoy the books and write stories based on them extremely well, but there are many people (I'll be extremely general and call them fangirls) who just write smut. And there are too many of those. If asked, i can't remember most of the good fanfics I read, but lots of ones that involve certain pairings still stick in my mind today.

So, yes there are good fanfictions that deserve praise, but, equally there are bad fanfictions which, equally, deserve singling out and being laughed at.

Re: Right

[kerravonsen]

So, because he openly disagrees with you, and expresses this clearly he must, naturally, be wrong?

Oh, naturally. I am, of course, omnipotent, and everything I say is but the mouthpiece of divine revelation.

And because you only looked at the part of the website showing your "work" and didn't see the webmaster say that there is some good fanfiction out there means that he didn't say it?

I don't know, why don't you tell me, oh Champion of Justice?

If asked, i can't remember most of the good fanfics I read, but lots of ones that involve certain pairings still stick in my mind today.

You poor thing. Imagine being burdened with such a negative mind.

So, yes there are good fanfictions that deserve praise, but, equally there are bad fanfictions which, equally, deserve singling out and being laughed at.

You poor thing. Imagine being burdened with such a negative mind.

Re: Right

[squeakychris.livejournal.com]

Thank you for varifying everything I thought about you, I was feeling slightly guilty for making certain assumptions but now i feel great, thanks.

And just to be clear on something....if someone writes a fanfiction consisting of nothing more than situations for main characters to have sex, then its fine as long as they write it correctly?

Re: Right

[kerravonsen]

Thank you for varifying everything I thought about you, I was feeling slightly guilty for making certain assumptions but now i feel great, thanks.

You do realize I was being sarcastic, don't you? After a whole heap of provocation.

And just to be clear on something....if someone writes a fanfiction consisting of nothing more than situations for main characters to have sex, then its fine as long as they write it correctly?

Where are you getting this nonsense from? I have expressed no opinions about PWP stories whatsoever. Is this prompted by the assumptions you've made about me, putting me in some All Fanfic Is Kewl box?

The incredible irony of all this is that you folk are giving me flack for daring to defend good fan fiction, wheras in other forums I've been given flack for daring to critique crappy fan fiction. (Note, however, that "critique" is not the same as "mock")