Easily Distractable

[kerravonsen]

Yes, well instead of doing those other things I ought to be doing, I made myself a new LJ icon, because I was getting tired of how grim my default Avon looked, so I replaced him with a colour clipping of Avon and Cally. Because I like Avon and Cally. And when I'm not being INTJ (Avon) I'm being INFJ (Cally). Though mistraltoes insists Avon is INTP like her. Which he might be some days. (pokes out tongue).

Comments

[mistraltoes.livejournal.com]

You're going to lose that tongue one day.

Hm. Avon, INTP like me? Not so much. INTP passing for INTJ, yes. So, on the surface, more like you. Behaviour and conversation, more like you. Root motivations and issues, a little more like mine. The P only shows in the cracks (and, I think, in his relationships), but it's definitely there.

Anyway, if Avon is INTP and Cally is INFJ, that really makes you a combination of both, rather than flipping back and forth. I'd think that would please you. (On the other hand, if he's INTJ, that's a perfect default icon for you - Cally looking over Avon's shoulder. No. forget I said that.)

Just out of curiosity - I've never known an INTJ to do that "I hate myself for being kind to you but I can't stop myself" thing. Do you do that? Because I'd have said that was one of his P behaviours. But I could always be ::cough:: wrong. ::cough::

[kerravonsen]

Anyway, if Avon is INTP and Cally is INFJ, that really makes you a combination of both, rather than flipping back and forth. I'd think that would please you. (On the other hand, if he's INTJ, that's a perfect default icon for you - Cally looking over Avon's shoulder. No. forget I said that.)

No, that's fair enough, because you know that I'm not a strong J -- I have upon occasion demonstrated Pish behaviour (like, er, tolerance and that sort of stuff (grin))
So either way, it's a perfect default icon for me (grin).

Just out of curiosity - I've never known an INTJ to do that "I hate myself for being kind to you but I can't stop myself" thing. Do you do that? Because I'd have said that was one of his P behaviours.

You know I'm not the right person to ask about this, because Avon considers emotions a weakness, wheras I don't. Whether that's because I'm INTJ, or because I'm a woman (women are expected to be emotional) or because of other environmental factors (being taught that compassion is good) I don't know. He hates himself when he behaves compassionately instead of logically; and I wouldn't consider it necessarily a P behaviour. Only insofar as you've already pointed out that INTPs are less emotional than INTJs. On the other hand it is also likely to be something environmentally influenced rather than internal, whether that he is a man (big boys don't cry) or because he fancies himself a rationalist, and how many zillion times have people proposed that a "scientific utopia" consists of perfect logic without emotions? Avon would either love Vulcan, or discover that it is not a realistic philosophy for a human being to follow.

[mistraltoes.livejournal.com]

[[Just out of curiosity - I've never known an INTJ to do that "I hate myself for being kind to you but I can't stop myself" thing. Do you do that? Because I'd have said that was one of his P behaviours.]]

You know I'm not the right person to ask about this, because Avon considers emotions a weakness, wheras I don't. Whether that's because I'm INTJ, or because I'm a woman (women are expected to be emotional) or because of other environmental factors (being taught that compassion is good) I don't know.

Actually, that's what I was asking, because INTPs in my experience do tend to consider it a weakness - not so much emotion itself, but any influence by emotions on decision making; and anything that at all smacks of emotional manipulation, whether deliberate or accidental, is viewed as foul play. I might decide to act with compassion on a regular basis as a principle of choice, and that's fine, but to feel compassion and be swayed by it is distasteful. So I was asking whether INTJs feel that same way. But it seems that we are still without an answer.

He hates himself when he behaves compassionately instead of logically; and I wouldn't consider it necessarily a P behaviour. Only insofar as you've already pointed out that INTPs are less emotional than INTJs.

Not so much less emotional as more anti-emotional, I think. Which is why at the moment I do see that as him displaying his underlying INTP base tendencies. Though of course my opinions are always subject to... refinement. :-)

[kerravonsen]

Actually, that's what I was asking, because INTPs in my experience do tend to consider it a weakness - not so much emotion itself, but any influence by emotions on decision making; and anything that at all smacks of emotional manipulation, whether deliberate or accidental, is viewed as foul play.

I would personally consider emotional manipulation to be foul play as well. Any manipulation is foul play. I used to drive my mother crazy when I was a kid/teenager and I would get mad at her when she suggested what I should wear, for example. Because then I couldn't be sure whether I was chosing what I chose because of what she said (eg reacting against it) or whether it was really what I wanted to wear. She wasn't intending to be manipulative, but I was reacting as if she was. And the problem with trying to be uninfluenced is that the suggestion is out there. If one says yes, can one be sure that one isn't just going along with it? If one says no, can one be sure that one isn't just reacting against it? (Backfired manipulation is still manipulation, because one is being influenced by it)

But manipulation by others doesn't fall into the same class as considering one's own emotions. I mean, one can be logical about it, in a way. I mean, take the classic method of decisionmaking: the "pro and con" method. Surely weighing the pros and cons is a logical thing. But some of those pros and cons may be emotional in nature.

Sometimes I like to consider emotions as a barometer rather than as a storm. They aren't wild untamed things to be regarded with contempt or suspicion: they are an indicator of the Self.

On the other hand, yes, I have very little patience with those who advocate that one must LISTEN TO ONE'S FEELINGS as if that's the only/best way to make a decision. That is just naieve. (Or, of course, pure Fness)

Is the happy medium then to be logical about one's emotions? Or is that even possible?

If INTPs are anti-emotional, is it because one fears what one doesn't understand?