Good News and Bad News

[kerravonsen]

Good: Some kind anonymous person has given me extra icon space! Whee!
Bad: A pro-slasher is complaining (albeit politely) about my arguments against slash page here.

I don't know what to do. I'm not sure I can cope with the inevitable flamage if I answer her on her own LJ where she is surrounded by like-minded people who are just waiting to jump on me. Even if she herself is polite, I know that people's friends can be less than restrained when they think themselves to be jumping to the defence of a friend -- it's kind of one of the laws of friendship.

I've gotten too badly burned too many times in slash debates, I don't know if I can dare go into the fray again. Last time I swore I'd never engage in a slash debate unless I was talking to the participants face-to-face.

I'm such a coward

ETA: 7:59
My Mum has mostly convinced me I'm not being a coward, merely using common sense.
Slash is such a divisive issue that nobody walks away from such "discussions" unscathed, and nobody walks away enlightened either.

Comments

[izhilzha.livejournal.com]

Yeah, avoiding said discussion seems like it might be wise. :-P I agree that while inkywaters may be polite, I doubt her flist will have the same high standards.

Also, I'm rather bemused by the fact that while she seems to be very careful not to imply that anti-slashers are bigots, most of her "re-phrasing" of your counter-arguments take it back towards the moral realm.

I myself am tempted to go challenge her statement that "ignorance isn't a right". No, maybe not; but one does have a right to at least be able to TRY to avoid things one finds offensive (hey, even the MPAA says *why* a movie is R-rated...).

[kerravonsen]

Also, I'm rather bemused by the fact that while she seems to be very careful not to imply that anti-slashers are bigots, most of her "re-phrasing" of your counter-arguments take it back towards the moral realm.

Especially the implication that I'm trying to stop people from writing slash...

I myself am tempted to go challenge her statement that "ignorance isn't a right". No, maybe not; but one does have a right to at least be able to TRY to avoid things one finds offensive (hey, even the MPAA says *why* a movie is R-rated...).

Yeah, I was thinking of movie ratings as a counter-argument myself, but I'm not sure that she'd accept a comparison of slash with porn or violence.

[izhilzha.livejournal.com]

Especially the implication that I'm trying to stop people from writing slash...

Yeah! I'm sorry, where was that even implied? *scratches head*

Yeah, I was thinking of movie ratings as a counter-argument myself, but I'm not sure that she'd accept a comparison of slash with porn or violence.

Well...how about the MA TV rating? A show like "Rescue Me" doesn't have a lot of violence or "porn", but it gets the rating almost solely for sexual discussion (ie, what guys talk about in the locker room).

I guess her counterargument could be that non-explicit slash should then be acceptable.... *eyeroll* This is me resisting the urge to go debate....

[lizamanynames.livejournal.com]

I'd listen to your mum. She sounds like she's got the right of it.

And I *DO* like slash, but I could never find a thing wrong with your page.

[kerravonsen]

And I *DO* like slash, but I could never find a thing wrong with your page.

*Thank* you! That's very reassuring.

Avoid fanning the flames

[fikgirl.livejournal.com]

My Mum has mostly convinced me I'm not being a coward, merely using common sense.
Slash is such a divisive issue that nobody walks away from such "discussions" unscathed, and nobody walks away enlightened either.

I will agree with your Mum here. It's not being cowardly by not going there. You're simply avoiding what can do nothing other than turn into a flame war. The writer of the entry is polite and coherent. No way to say how the hard core slashers who feel insulted will respond. (That's not to say there's something wrong with hard core slashers; no more than hard core 'shippers, but when people are hard core about something, logic sometimes go straight out the window.)

Of course, like The Good 'Shipper Barges and Boats (pick any het ship in any fandom even), this is one debate that people usually feel very strongly about one way or another.

Re: Avoid fanning the flames

[kerravonsen]

Thanks.

While the writer of the entry said there that she was interested in promoting discussion, I doubt that she's had enough experience with pro/anti-slash debates to know that it is practically impossible to prevent them from turning into flamewars. I mean, I've been in fandom for about 20 years, and I can think of only one occassion where such a thing hasn't gone down in flames, and that was when the discussion was happening in a face-to-face environment.

[kerravonsen]

I've left a note there thanking her for her feedback. I *will* be revising the original page -- more to clarifiy, and, hey, she's given more pro-slash examples, so this is good.

[altariel.livejournal.com]

You've done the wisest thing - she wrote politely, you have written politely back, and even thanked her for making contributions. It's almost impossible to discuss emotive subjects online without some knowledge of participants (FTF data helps) without it collapsing into flaming, and there's no reason why you should put yourself there.

[kerravonsen]

Thanks.

FTF data helps

FTF?

[altariel.livejournal.com]

Sorry, face-to-face.

[kerravonsen]

Ah. Now I understand.

[julesjones]

What altariel1 said. I'd have added my piece over there this morning, but:

1) watervole is politer than me, which is A Good Thing in this sort of situation

2) I'm staying with watervole at the moment, and two postings in succession from the same IP address with much the same content might have raised suspicions about sock puppets. :-)

And yes, it would have been from this LJ account - the one where I can point out that not only do I write slash fanfic, I write pro gay romance.

[kerravonsen]

Thanks!

[izhilzha.livejournal.com]

Oh boy. I just went and made a post there. I hope nothing bad comes of it.

[kerravonsen]

It seems to be okay so far. 8-)