Welsh questions

[kerravonsen]

I know this is extremely unlikely to be answered, but it can't hurt to ask, can it? I need some Welsh-related questions answered for my AU Doctor Who story...

First, what would be a good alternative name to give the reactor project in the Doctor Who episode "Boom Town"? It was originally called "Bad Wolf" in Welsh. I don't know any Welsh, but I'd like a different Welsh name to give it. (Yes, this is my Bad-Wolf-less AU)

Second question, also Welsh-related: is there Welsh-only TV in Wales? And if so, what kind of things are shown on it?

Comments

[vilakins.livejournal.com]

linda_joyce is Welsh (and a B7 fan too; I'm not sure about Who). I'll point her in your direction. :-)

[kerravonsen]

Thanks!

[kalypso-v.livejournal.com]

There's definitely Welsh television, though I've never seen it and the only programme I know about is Pobol y Cwm (http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/pobolycwm/) (People of the Valley) which is a soap opera. There are sites for BBC Wales (http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales)/BBC Cymru (http://www.bbc.co.uk/cymru), and there's also a Welsh version of Channel 4 (http://www.s4c.co.uk/e_index.html). I don't think either of these is an independent channel; my impression is that they show usual BBC/C4 programming with a larger amount of regional alternatives than the other regions.

[kerravonsen]

Thanks!

[linda-joyce.livejournal.com]

I can't help with the Welsh language question, I'm from South east Wales and when I was growing up 50+ years ago Welsh was a dead language in my neck of the woods so I never learned it.
I would not recommend simply using a Welsh/ English dictionary as Welsh words change depending on where they are used. Just find a Gazetteer of Welsh Place names on line and choose one you like. Tha's how most new Builds in this part of Wales are named. A company is building a housing estate on the pit head of the colliery near my home village and they are calling it Coed Cellenyn Meaning The beautiful wood

I can however say there is a a predominantly welsh language TV station. It's simply referred to as S4C, S presumably being the intial of the Welsh word for Channel and C being Cymru (Wales) as the English version of this TV station is just called Channel 4. The programs at peak viewing time are in Welsh but as a sop to such as I those after 10.00 pm and before 12 noon are in English. Also as a sop to non Welsh speakers most of the Welsh language programs are subtitled via Cefax.
The english programs they put out are mostly American sit coms series like Lost Babylon 5 and and films. The Welsh ones run the gamut of program types you would find on any public service broadcaster anywhere in the world. They have, for example a soap called Pobl y cwm (The people of the valley)a sort of Welsh Coronation Street.

If I can be of any more help please get in touch, Vilakins will have my email addy and I'm happy for her to give it to you as I have no idea how to put it here in a way no-one else can get at.

[kerravonsen]

I would not recommend simply using a Welsh/ English dictionary as Welsh words change depending on where they are used.

Yeah, I kind of figured I could end up with something laughably horrible if I just went the dictionary route, hence my asking in the first place. Oh well. Maybe I can just not mention the name, except that I wanted to indicate that it wasn't Bad Wolf... I'm not so sure that place names would help so much, since it's supposed to be the name of a nuclear power station, not a housing estate... on the other hand, maybe the character who named it did use a Welsh place name anyway. Hmmm.

[kalypso-v.livejournal.com]

What you could do with is something like a Welsh nursery rhyme, but unfortunately my friend whose Welsh was limited to a nursery rhyme taught her by her nanny died a few years ago.

I read some time ago that the Glamorgan cricketers were said to have started chatting in Welsh to confuse opposing batsmen, though a couple of them admitted they hadn't really got further than phrases like "bread and butter" which they threw out occasionally to convince the batsman that they were discussing a cunning plan to dismiss him.

[linda-joyce.livejournal.com]

I've just checked the nuclear power stations in the UK and, short of looking them up in a gazetteer, I'm pretty sure they are all named after the nearest town/village or major geographical feature. The only one in Wales is called Wylfa and is named after Wylfa Head (Anglesy)in whose shadow it is built so using a coastal place name would be typical for the UK

[jhall1.livejournal.com]

The "Boom Town" reactor was in Cardiff, IIRC, so presumably its alternative name would simply be either that or perhaps the Welsh language equivalent of the name. But if most people in the Cardiff region have English as their first language then presumably "Cardiff" would be more likely. (Or maybe a more local place name within Cardiff.)

[linda-joyce.livejournal.com]

I only just remebered what Bad Wolf was all about.

I've sent a list of possible names through to kerravonsens lj using place names in the Cardiff Bay area, which is the most likely area for a nuckear reactor, and they're all in English except for Splott which is probably in the Viking language.

[jhall1.livejournal.com]

It's got to be Splott! That is such a great name.

[linda-joyce.livejournal.com]

Splott has to be my most favourite place name in the whole world and if she doesn't pick it I'm going to sulk .

[kerravonsen]

Well, we can't have that! Splott it is.

[linda-joyce.livejournal.com]

You've made a wise choice, I can sulk better than any one else in the world.

[kerravonsen]

Sorry, I have to take that back now, because if the waterfront in the episode was actually at Tiger Bay (rather than Splott) then that's what it has to be called, doesn't it?

[linda-joyce.livejournal.com]

Tiger Bay does not actually appear on maps of Cardiff as far as I can see. I think it was a purely local name for the area covering the docks, Cardiff Bay and the working men's houses in the areas like Splot. But it is the better known name thanks to that old B&W film with a very young Hayley Mills in it. I'd love it if you could work Splot in there somewhere though.

If you need a good map to work out where things are going on I used www.streetmap.co.uk and put in Splot as a GB place name. It is, IIRC, unique to Cardiff.

[kerravonsen]

Thanks for the map! That could come in handy.

[vilakins.livejournal.com]

I just found out that Tiger Bay was called that because of the many nationalities (hence skin colours) at the port, and also, from the same person, that it is indeed called Butetown now and the normal word order is better: Teigr Bae.

You should have Splott in the story too. It's a great name.

[kerravonsen]

Thanks for this. It may turn out that I have neither in the story, because (a) I already wrote stuff about the reactor carefully not mentioning its name because at that point I didn't know what name it would have, and (b) I can't think of a plot-reason for mentioning Splott. I have too many other hard things to wrestle with in this story without having to wrestle with something that I don't actually need to wrestle with.
Like discovering that people in the UK normally do four A-level subjects, not five. (When I was doing my higher-level high school studies in Queensland, we did five subjects (plus English and Phys-ed, which were compulsory) so I was taken by surprise)

Your icon is indeed cute. 8-)

[vilakins.livejournal.com]

Aww, go on, call the reactor Teigr Bae. You only have to mention it once and it's fun twice: it's the area they're in, and it's a tiger, not a wolf.

We did 5 or 6 subjects in our equivalent. 4 seems a bit specialised.

That's the little boy; I fed the little girl but we played with both. They've gone to South Africa now as art of a reciprocal breeding program; I should find out what they're called now. They weren't named when we met them as that was up to the South Africans. The place they're going is lovely: lots of different animals all in together and getting lots of attention and play.

[kerravonsen]

Okay, a paragraph:

The paving of the square still showed signs of the earthquake that had rocked Cardiff when the rift had begun to open when they'd been here before. The Teigr Bae Atomic Plant project was on hold, of course; with the mayor missing, presumed dead, all the irregularities had been coming to light. The project would probably be scrapped altogether.

[vilakins.livejournal.com]

Sounds good. I'm not sure about the punctuation though; I think I'd combine those sentences differently:

The paving of the square still showed signs of the earthquake that had rocked Cardiff when the rift had begun to open when they'd been here before. The Teigr Bae Atomic Plant project was on hold, of course. With the mayor missing, presumed dead, all the irregularities had been coming to light and the project would probably be scrapped altogether.

I'm looking forward to this. A Cally&Nine AU?

[vilakins.livejournal.com]

But hey, entirely up to you!

[kerravonsen]

A Cally&Nine AU?

No, it wouldn't work with Cally&Nine; certain things just couldn't have happened with them. And I've scrapped the idea of my "Cally and the Dalek" story; since I'm doing some "Dalek"-related stuff with this one, I'd go insane trying to write two "Dalek"-related AUs, especially as they would be covering some of the same ground if I did.

This story is an AU for "Parting of the Ways" -- to resolve the end, without there being a Bad Wolf at all. The start and the end of the story are basically straight from the end of "Parting of the Ways" with, of course, alterations. The middle will be all new, but with references (from the detailed to the offhand) to "Boom Town", "Dalek", "The Long Game", "The Unquiet Dead", "The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances" and "Father's Day". So far. Very spoilerific story it will be.

There are some parts of the middle I haven't got a clue about, but I'll worry about them when I get there.

[vilakins.livejournal.com]

Ooh. I'm intrigued! :-D

[linda-joyce.livejournal.com]

It has taken me all day to remember that the key to Bad Wolf was that it was in the middle of Cardiff sitting on top of the time/space fault, the exact location of which we never found out. So my suggestion of a Welsh place name isn't a sensible one. As I said in my second reply we tend to name our nuclear power stations by the nearest village/ town/ geographical feature. Allowing for the need for modern day nuclear power stations to be near a source of water can I suggest the following:-
Splott Magnox Reactor
East Moors Nuclear Power Station
Atlantic Warf power plant
Orchard Ledges Power Plant
Tiger Bay Atomic Plant

All of the above are place names in the Cardiff Bay area of Cardiff which is about a ten minute walk from the city centre and on or near the Bristol Channel as the Severn Estuary has become by then.

Welsh is suposed to be the first language in Cardiff but most public/government buildings have both English and Welsh versions of their names. If your character were English or from only as little as 20 miles East of Cardiff he would more than likely use the English variant.

[vilakins.livejournal.com]

Tiger Bay! It's an animal so it would be great. OK, I'll ask on linguaphiles when I get to work.

And yeah, Splott is fun.

[watervole.livejournal.com]

Try asking whotheheckami I think he may speak Welsh. Well, he certainly comes from Wales, which is a hopeful first step.

[vilakins.livejournal.com]

OK, I'm at work now and have posted the question on linguaphiles; I know there are Welsh-speakers there. The more I think of Tiger Bay, the more I like it. It's not just another animal name; that area is now called Butetown and is the waterfront where the TARDIS is parked! The building with the inscription is the Milliennium Centre, home to the Welsh National Opera, and the words read in English and Welsh, "In These Stones Horizons Sing", just in case you can use that. :-)

[kerravonsen]

Well, if Tiger Bay is where they actually are, then that's what it has to be named after, doesn't it?

[vilakins.livejournal.com]

Two people replied already. One suggested I cross-post to a Welsh community which I will if I don't have to join it to do so. The other said:

Most Welsh-speakers would probably say teigr, but if you want a Welsher equivalent, there's dywalgi (literally "fierce dog"). So Bae Dywalgi.

I think 'fierce dog' is too close to 'wolf', so Bae Teigr?

I'll let you know if I get any more suggestions.

[kalypso-v.livejournal.com]

Over the weekend I tried asking Ellie, as she lives in Wales now, but the only suggestion she offered was ty bach which means small house but is generally understood as signifying toilet.

I like Bae Teigr, which has the advantages of (a) looking Welsh, but being intelligible in English as soon as you say it out loud (b) being very site-specific (c) involving another wild animal.

PS

[kalypso-v.livejournal.com]

Sorry, meant to say I did find a children's song (http://www.thewildoats.com/tybchtwt.html) about ty bach, in which sense I am not sure.

the answer is:

[(Anonymous)]

bad wolf, i dont no how to speel it it's called blige drule, it is welsh and i hope wat u doing works lol, bye x x x spikey08@hotmail.co.uk

Re: the answer is:

[kerravonsen]

Any particular reason you're making a comment in an entry that was posted three years ago?