kerravonsen | Knitting Blues And Greys

Right now I am writing this blog post, but just before now I was frogging my, um... 10th maybe... attempt to needle-knit. I am a crocheter. I can crochet. I can hook-knit with a crochet hook. But I thought I'd try learning needle-knitting because all the needle-knitters look at me funny whenever I mention hook-knitting. And because it would be easier to learn fancy stitches because nobody makes hook-knitting tutorials beyond the plain knit-and-purl. So I have watched multiple videos on knitting-for-crocheters and on Contininental Knitting (because Continental-style knitting is easier for crocheters to grok). And I bought a set of interchangeable needles from Ebay, because I thought value-for-money.

So.

Long-tail cast-on. Not a problem, especially after this video broke it down in a way I could grok. (That isn't a video for long-tail cast-on, it's a video for a more fancy cast-on which is related to long-tail cast-on)

The actual knitting... ugh. Lumpy, awful, my tension is all wrong, the stitches either won't move or the needle slides out of them, I split the yarn, the yarn keeps sliding off my needle before I can pull it through, I get confused about what direction I'm supposed to wrap the yarn, I slip a stitch when I think I've knitted it, I mysteriously add stitches, I get odd loops hanging out, it is utterly horrible!

Part of me wants to give it up as a bad job, and part of me wants to prove I can needle-knit so that people will stop looking at me funny. And because I want to learn fancy stitches. And because Continental knitting is supposed to be fast, and it would be nice to be able to knit faster. Well, I'm assuming that Continental knitting is faster than hook-knitting, though I have zero data about this. I just know that Continental is faster than English.

(sigh)

I know all the knitters in the audience will say "it's easy!" but you probably all learned it at your grandmother's knee. My grandmother wasn't a knitter, she was a mad-keen gardener, and so was my mother. So I was not able to learn from them. My sister can knit, but she lives in another state, so opportunities for face-to-face knitting-learning are few.

(sigh)

Current Mood: frustrated
Crossposts: https://kerravonsen.livejournal.com/1122903.html

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

From:

fred_mouse

As a crochet person, I find knitting slow and tedious, but now that I've kind of got the hang of it, kind of pleasant. I can do basic knitting without looking at the needles, so I am becoming more likely to take that places than crochet, just so that I can watch things while I craft.

I don't know whether I'm Continental or English. I vaguely recall that one of the knitting books I have also shows 'Scottish' and that that was the closest to my style.

$kerravonsen: (fractal)$

From:

kerravonsen

You make me feel better.

From:

fred_mouse

From:

tptigger

Our local community college has adult ed classes and I'm currently taking a knitting class through them. Does Australia have something like that?
Alternately, some of stores have knitting classes?

From:

kerravonsen

Good point.

From:

deird1

Check your local library. Mine has weekly crafting group meetups.

(On the subject of your post: Knitting is impossible. I love crocheting, but I've given up on knitting.)

From:

kerravonsen

8-)

From:

watervole

Stick with it.

We've all been through the terrible tension and the slippery stitches.

You'll come out the other end, but it takes a while to get all the moves into muscle memory.

The best videos are the ones where you're looking over the knitter's shoulder.

You're right, Continental is likely to be best for a crocheter - it's the method I use, and it is faster. I learnt the other way as a kid, and it took me time to adapt, but it was worth it.

I hope you're starting out with a very basic scarf, as that's really the best way to learn. Just knit four rows and then purl four rows. Keep it easy until you're comfortable with tension both knitting and purling.

You're smart, you'll get there :)

From:

kerravonsen

Thing is... I'm not sure I want to...

Because the alternative is to stick with hook-knitting and try to figure out how to translate the fancy knitting stitches into hook-knitting terms. Because at least this bout with knitting has enabled me to understand knitting terms a bit better -- I now know what "knitwise" and "purlwise" mean, which I couldn't grok before.

Edited (more thoughts) Date: 2019-02-07 08:12 pm (UTC)

From:

watervole

I think you'll find it much easier to translate when you've done it a bit more.

I find I don't initially understand what stitches are trying to achieve until I've knitted a section.

The same with crochet. I have to have actually made a granny square sample before I get a feel for how the different stitches work together.

I'm guessing that life is really crap at present, because it isn't like you to give up on a new skill so early on.

Then again, if life is crap, the added stress of trying to lean something that does not want to co-operate can be the last straw.

I'm currently coping with stress by learning German nouns, at least they don't fall off needles...

From:

kerravonsen

I'm guessing that life is really crap at present, because it isn't like you to give up on a new skill so early on.

Well... it isn't like I don't know how to knit, I just don't know how to knit with needles. So my motivation to learn isn't as high as it usually is. Mind you, I learned to hook-knit even though I already knew how to loom-knit, because I had found there were things that loom-knitting was not suited for (cables). I haven't had the same level of frustration with hook-knitting, merely a lack of data as to whether the things I wanted to do were possible or not.

But you are not the only one to observe that I usually don't give up on learning a craft -- the very same thing was said by my friend Janeene this afternoon.

Mind you, there is one craft that I have abandoned in the past as too difficult, and that was tatting (both shuttle-tatting and needle-tatting). I might not have abandoned it if I hadn't considered that I could still do similar things with crochet and macrame, though.

Is life really crap for me at the moment? I wouldn't have thought so... except that I had a bit of a meltdown this evening after a bit of constructive criticism indicated that all the work I'd done on my Etsy photos last week had been a complete waste of time. (sigh)

I'm currently coping with stress by learning German nouns, at least they don't fall off needles...

(laughs)

From:

tree_and_leaf

I did not learn to knit at my mother's knee, and now I can do lace! So it is completely possible to learn it. It just takes a while for it to become natural and persistence through the early stages where what you're producing looks awful/ falls apart/ mysteriously gains or loses stitches.

From:

tree_and_leaf

Also, what sort of yarn are you using? How easy it is to get into the habit of producing a consistent tension varies quite a lot depending on the yarn. Cotton is particularly unforgiving, and some yarns are too easy to split.

It also helps to start on big needles and thick yarn.

From:

kerravonsen

Also, what sort of yarn are you using?

Three different yarns so far. The first was a chunky acrylic on big needles. Tended to split it. Second was a thinner acrylic on thinner needles; that one split even worse. Third one was a single-strand acrylic on the thinner needles; at least I wasn't able to split that one.

It also helps to start on big needles and thick yarn.

I did, but I think the circular big needles (which is what I have, with the interchangeable needles) are extra awkward to work with.

From:

vilakins

I actually prefer circulars and always use them whether the project is flat or round. However big circs are a bit harder because you have to get the stitches back onto the needles from the thin cable, so maybe get some cheap thick plastics from a yarn shop? I have some bulky yarn for a vest I want to knit some day and I'll probably go with straight needles for that.

[Edit] Oh, and splitty yarns are just awful not matter how experienced you are! Yarns with a high twist are so much easier.

Edited Date: 2019-02-07 09:08 pm (UTC)

From:

kerravonsen

I actually prefer circulars and always use them whether the project is flat or round.

I can see the appeal of circulars, yes.

However big circs are a bit harder because you have to get the stitches back onto the needles from the thin cable

Yeah, I've noticed that. Though it can be a problem with any cable needle, the thicker ones are worse.

From:

tree_and_leaf

I find my circulars great, but they're not what I learned on and I do think straights are easier while you're still trying to get the hand go it. You could even tie something to the end of one of them, which would make remembering which side was which easier.

From:

kerravonsen

Remembering which side is which is not a problem, I just have to look at where the working yarn is.

From:

watervole

Try a yarn with a tight twist - that won't split as much. Don't go too big on the needles - it's easier to see the stitches on big needles, but they do tend to slide around more.

Go with a light colour of yarn, and don't start with circulars. I find them fiddly and they get in the way. (though others will feel different)

I'm not a fan of circular needles. I've tried them, and even when kitting socks, I've gone back to double pointed needles.

Scarfs. Always start with a scarf on ordinary average size needles. (they're average for a reason - that's the size that people find easy to use)

From:

kerravonsen

Well, my frustration has been in doing garter stitch swatches, I haven't even gotten as far as trying to actually make something.

Go with a light colour of yarn, and don't start with circulars. I find them fiddly and they get in the way. (though others will feel different)

Hmmm, I think I have one pair of straight needles, which my sister gave me, but I'm not entirely sure where they are...

From:

tree_and_leaf

As I said above, I love my circulars, but I would agree that they're not good for absolute beginners. And the cheap ones are quite difficult to use, too.

From:

sulien

Don't feel too bad, I know a few people who much prefer crocheting (regular and Tunisian) to knitting because of the issues with dropped stitches in particular (I'm one of them, knitting and I are most assuredly non-mixy things). However, if you can work past that and become comfortable with knitting, there are some truly spectacular patterns available to make it worth while. I wish you the very best of luck!

From:

kerravonsen

Thanks. Yes, the spectacular patterns are a siren call.

From:

vilakins

Until a few years ago I used to do long-tail by the thumb method, basically knitting the stitches on. However if knitting is confusing, then that wouldn't help, but it's the easiest one to learn. I finally clicked with the faster method though.

I think you can still use your hook method as knit and purl are the only stitches, just with variations like adding yarn-overs (holes), kitting together, increasing and decreasing. When I took it up again (after knitting as a child) to knit a Dr Who scarf, it mainly came back, and since then I just look for videos of any new variations and techniques. Lace is basically yarn-overs and knit-togethers and I'm sure they'd be easy with your hook method though it might be hard to find instructions for other techniques.

I crochet too, but though it's faster, I prefer the fabric texture of knitting for most garments, though I'm at the stage of sewing together a long crocheted cardi - I hate sewing seams!

From:

kerravonsen

Until a few years ago I used to do long-tail by the thumb method, basically knitting the stitches on. However if knitting is confusing, then that wouldn't help, but it's the easiest one to learn. I finally clicked with the faster method though.

I was unaware that there was more than one way of doing a long-tail cast-on, so I have no idea which method I am using. But I'm not having any problems with long-tail cast-on, and I'm certainly getting enough practice at it, with all the times I've had to frog back to the beginning!

I think you can still use your hook method as knit and purl are the only stitches, just with variations like adding yarn-overs (holes), kitting together, increasing and decreasing.

I used to think that, until I came across all these terms and abreviations such as SSK, PSSO, "make one", and so on, and I found I couldn't even understand the instructions for them, because it was talking about "insert needle knitwise" and "slip stitch purlwise" and it was all Greek to me. At least now after trying the needle-knitting, I finally understand what "knitwise" and "purlwise" mean, so there is hope in learning the rest.

Though I've just realised that I've been doing my hook-knitting wrong all this time! I've been making twisted stitches instead of straight ones. No wonder my diagonal garter stitch scarf has been curling! I'm not going to undo it though -- that particular yarn has been frogged too many times already, and it is getting fuzzy and sticking to itself.

I crochet too, but though it's faster, I prefer the fabric texture of knitting for most garments

(nods) Knitting is better for garments, because it is stretchy. Crochet is better for bags, dishcloths etc, because it isn't stretchy. For things like blankets and scarves it is probably much of a muchness.

Is crochet faster? That's kind of comforting to me. I always thought that needle-knitting was supposed to be faster. I've certainly seen some people knitting like speed-demons... okay, one person. She was knitting in the bus, and she was so fast it was mind-boggling.

From:

vilakins

Things like SSK, and PSSO are just ways of manipulating ordinary knit (or purl) stitches. SSK is just slipping stitches to the right needle, inserting the left needle, and once that's done, doing a knit stitch. PSSO I don't use as much, but it's just slip a stitch to the right needle, knit the next one in the ordinary way, then pass the slipped stitch over the one you just knitted, as if you're binding off. They're both ways of decreasing, as is K2T - knit two together - and which one you use depends on the pattern because they look different.

Not sure if that helps at all. Certainly I look up videos for anything new. Good sites to consult are Knit Purl Hunter, Very Pink, and Knitfreedom. They all have clear videos, but which one you prefer depends on whether you knit English (American in the US) style with the yarn in your right hand (like me) or Continental (yarn in the left hand). I knit English style, but I don't mind continental vids though they may confuse depending on your style.

Very Pink: English style with a finger, the way I do it
Knit Purl Hunter: English, but she uses her whole hand
Knit Freedom: continental but often shows both
All three are very clear and also on YouTube.

Crochet is better for bags, dishcloths etc
Yep, I made a crocheted market bag recently. I'm very pleased with it. Are you on Ravelry? If so, I'm Vilakins as usual (it's never taken).

Crochet is definitely faster. A good knitter will knit more stitches in the same time, but they're a lot smaller.

From:

watervole

Just friended you on Ravelry.

From:

vilakins

Cheers, same! :-)

From:

kerravonsen

Yeah, I've been looking at some of Very Pink's videos on YouTube; she's good.

From:

vilakins

Oh, good! She and Knit Purl Hunter are my go-to gurus.

From:

watervole

I'm faster when knitting, but it probably depends on what you're making.

I just did Owsin a pair of mittens in a couple of days, but they were all stocking stitch.

From:

jaxomsride.livejournal.com

I never could master the art of needle knitting, that's why I am learning to loom knit instead. I never could get the tension right and kept purling when I should knit and vice versa.