Strange Words

[kerravonsen]

Just had an interesting conversation with a couple of women who knocked on my door claiming to be "theological students" "practising a presentation". I put those in quotes because I now think that they weren't... well, technically you could argue that they were, in the sense that all those who read the Bible are studying the Bible and thus are "students". Really, I think they were doing what Evangelicals call "witnessing": going up to random strangers and trying to persuade them to change their beliefs. The clincher for this was when they started trying to persuade me to come to their church (the church opposite the McDonalds on Blackburn Road, which I think they said was a "Church of Christ" but I'm not entirely sure). But that wasn't until later on in the conversation. Darn it, I just realised that I should have encouraged rather than discouraged them from coming back. Why? Because they need to be rescued from what sounds like (to me) a rather unhealthy church. Oh well. I guess all I can do now is pray for them, poor lambs.

Anyway, they started off with talking about "God the Mother", which was really rather interesting -- this was a discussion, not really a "presentation" because I kept on saying stuff, and they said, sure carry on, this is supposed to be interactive. They were using verses in Genesis and Revelation to prove their point (what is it called? "Proof texts" I think). The point which I agreed with from Genesis was, if mankind is created in God's image, then that must mean that there are some feminine aspects to God, otherwise women cannot be made "in the image of God". Which is fair enough. The verses from Revelation were less convincing to me.

Revelation 22:17 -

The Spirit and the Bride say, “Come.” And let the one who hears say, “Come.” And let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who desires take the water of life without price.

They used this to start arguing that, since in other places which talk about the "wedding feast", we, the Church, are referred to as the guests, then the Bride referred to here can't be the Church. Except that there are obviously different verses which do refer to the Bride as the Church, so... not very convincing, really.

Which is a pity, because there are other verses which they could have used to support their argument, such as the metaphor of God as a mother hen:

O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you would not! -- Matthew 23:37

Oh well. It was still interesting.

Having exhausted their meager proof-texts for the motherhood of God, they brought up a new topic (since I was proving to be a congenial person). They started to argue that if we aren't celebrating all the Old Testament feasts then we aren't obeying God... starting with the Passover and saying that since Christ said "do this in remembrance of me" he meant that it must be done as Passover rather than the Christian practice of Communion. They didn't get very far on this before I said, stop this, this is too divisive.

So then they moved on to an even stranger and more controversial topic: that humans are actually fallen angels. Whut? What kind of weird-ass stuff are they teaching them at that church? Funny, that; it was at that point they encouraged me strongly to come to their church, where they could explain more thoroughly, or, barring that, they could come back and visit me again. I said no on both points, and suggested that the conversation needed to draw to a close. And said "God bless you" to them as they left.

Oh, poor, poor lambs. I feel sorry for them now, though I didn't at the time.

Comments

[thewayne]

Oh, boy. Are they wearing synthetic fibers? Were they out on a Saturday? Do they eat shellfish? Sounds like someone is doing some extreme picking and choosing and some really weird interpreting.

[kerravonsen]

Indeed.
Well, it was a Saturday, and they were out...
I hadn't realised that some people have interpreted the Old Testament laws as forbidding synthetic fibres -- considering that synthetic fibres didn't exist back then.

Sounds like someone is doing some extreme picking and choosing and some really weird interpreting.

I've been wondering if their topics have been deliberately provocative in order to grab people's interest and say "well, OUR church is better than all those stuffy old orthodox churches". Or something.

[watervole]

Leviticus 19:19 ESV
“You shall keep my statutes. You shall not let your cattle breed with a different kind. You shall not sow your field with two kinds of seed, nor shall you wear a garment of cloth made of two kinds of material.

Mixed fibres - eg. Polyester-cotton.

To me, the oddness always begins with assuming the Bible is word for word true and using the text in the Bible to try to prove this. ie. The Bible is the word of God because it says it is. (What would have happened if the council of Nicea had picked a different set of books to be canonical?)

[delphipsmith]

Darn it, I just realised that I should have encouraged rather than discouraged them from coming back. Why? Because they need to be rescued from what sounds like (to me) a rather unhealthy church. Oh well. I guess all I can do now is pray for them, poor lambs.

What a kind person you are :)

[kerravonsen]

♥

[delphipsmith]

All of the above reminds me of this lol

[kerravonsen]

Ha! Oh that is adorable! And, yes, I see the resemblance.

[vjezkova.livejournal.com]

Well, I would pay to see you discussing with these women!

[kerravonsen]

Why, thank you.

[izhilzha.livejournal.com]

This is fascinating. (And there are quite a few more texts in scripture about the motherhood of God, we should discuss that sometime, it's quite interesting to me at the moment.)

I'm rather glad they got you as a conversation partner; perhaps your words and prayers will help lead them to someplace less... odd. I mean, humans are fallen angels? That sounds like one of the worse episodes of Supernatural. Heh.

[kerravonsen]

And there are quite a few more texts in scripture about the motherhood of God, we should discuss that sometime, it's quite interesting to me at the moment.
My short opinion on this is: God-the-Father is definitely called "Father", I will not change the pronoun I use to refer to Him, but that doesn't mean that He doesn't have feminine traits. If you see what I mean.

And... I'm waiting for your reply to my last letter?

I mean, humans are fallen angels? That sounds like one of the worse episodes of Supernatural. Heh.
Indeed. I mean, there are so few verses in the Bible that refer to angels in the first place, we don't know a lot about them, so drawing a wild conclusion like that is... reaching much too far. Unless they were going by "angels are God's messengers, we are God's messengers, therefore we are angels"? Still backwards logic, though. A bit like saying "Men are mortal, dogs are mortal, therefore men are dogs". Um. No.

[izhilzha.livejournal.com]

I frequently call God "Mother" in private prayer; not something I would insist anyone else do, but something that has really brought me a new understanding of the welcome God has for me, no matter what is going on with me or going on in my life.

I am working on a reply to your letter; I've been quite busy, unfortunately, so it's taking a while. Hopefully in a few days that will go out!

[kerravonsen]

I call Him "Papa" in private prayer; something closer than "Father", but something different than the way I refer to anyone else.

Hopefully in a few days that will go out!

8-)