I just realized...

[kerravonsen]

...that I really must dislike Clara, because I have not read ANY fic with her in it.

Which is kind of sad. I mean, I don't like disliking companions. But I haven't even gone looking for Clara-fic. Haven't wanted to. It's all "meh".

I'm not sure I can ask for recs, because I doubt anyone has written a story which will change my mind about Clara, because people who like Clara won't think anyone needs persuading, and people who dislike Clara won't write stories that put Clara in a good light.

Why do I dislike Clara? I can't get past her lying to the people closest to her (Danny and the Doctor). I read some good meta which kind of explained why Clara lied - that she was under stress, that she felt that she couldn't choose, so she fell back on lying in order not to have to choose between the Doctor and Danny. So, yes, there are reasons. But they are stupid and foolish reasons; if she had been honest, she could have worked something out between the three of them, while instead, she did the dumbest and most hurtful thing possible: she lied. I have no sympathy for her reasons. Instead, I am angry and disappointed. I want to shake her and say "How dare you! How dare you betray those you love by lying to them? How dare you claim to love them at all? For shame!"

Hmmm. I didn't realize I was so angry about it. It obviously hit a nerve.

Not sure what to do about it, either. Suggestions?

Comments

[kalypso]

This is interesting, because I've never felt any urge to write fic about Clara, but you've now set off a train of thought about her, though I doubt it will produce anything... I'm trying to remember whether she lied at all before stepping into the Doctor's timestream? And if not, whether it was something about that experience that made her more likely to lie - fragmented memories of so many lives loosening her hold on a single reality, or maybe convincing her that it's possible to juggle more than one life, which she then tries to do within a single timeline?

The other thing that comes to my mind is the line "The Doctor always lies" - I'm not sure when that first cropped up, or whether it's necessarily true, but I do think there's a tendency for companions to take on aspects of his character, and not always good ones (I'm remembering Rory angrily telling him "You're turning me into you!" when he's persuaded to leave older Amy on Appalapachia). Probably not coincidental that it's when Clara is trying to act as the Doctor in Flatline that he confronts her with her lying.

Sorry, that's no help with finding Clarafic that you might like...

[kerravonsen]

I'm trying to remember whether she lied at all before stepping into the Doctor's timestream? And if not, whether it was something about that experience that made her more likely to lie - fragmented memories of so many lives loosening her hold on a single reality, or maybe convincing her that it's possible to juggle more than one life, which she then tries to do within a single timeline?

Interesting thought. If I recall correctly, before that time she was enigmatic, she told half-truths, but she didn't outright lie, and certainly not to the Doctor.

The other thing that comes to my mind is the line "The Doctor always lies" - I'm not sure when that first cropped up, or whether it's necessarily true

Eleventh Doctor, especially in association with River. I don't think it appeared before then, and I don't think it's necessarily true, either. The Doctor does lie from time to time, but Eleven is the one who has lied the most often and most consistently. I don't think that's necessarily the case with Twelve.

Of course, the one exception to the lying thing is the little white lie of "I'm fine", which is something which both the Doctor and his companions have done frequently, and will probably do until the universe collapses on itself.

But the lying which Clara is doing to the Doctor and Danny isn't that kind of lying, and it isn't the "save the world by bluffing" kind of lying; and it's the latter kind of lying which is the most Doctorish, IMHO. (Jammy Dodgers!)

I liked Clara better when she was with Eleven, but I had different problems with her then; the whole "impossible girl" paradox made it hard to get a handle on her, on her motivations especially.

What I expect will happen in the next season is that now that Danny is gone, the lying will stop, and everyone will pretend like it never happened. Which is hardly a mature way of dealing with it, but it's something I'm prepared to live with if it means that the lying stops. (sigh)

[dreamflower]

I have to say her lying has put me off. Story externally, all her lying is the hinge on which the writers hung the plot for entire story arcs.

But there was never a good story internal reason for it. Excuses, yes, as you've mentioned, but no real reasons that make sense. She's a chronic habitual liar, and that is not something that just happens. People who lie even when the truth makes more sense have something broken in them, and with Clara we never find out just why that is.

"Because if she always told the truth the story wouldn't work" doesn't cut it.

(Although I can imagine an interesting meta fic, in which she has always tried to tell the truth only to finding that lies come out instead, and she realizes she's being controlled by some unseen entity.)

[sallymn.livejournal.com]

I'm probably not going to be much help because - as you mau know - I have no problem whatsoever with disliking characters, or with how that affects my reading (I wouldn't be able to read pretty much any Stargate if my antipathy for Carter meant I didn't read stuff where she has a large part - but on the other hand, I don't bother with Carter-centric stories). And I don't read much Who fic, even for the characters I adore (there are a number of fandoms I love, but don't read fic for)

But - going by the characters I dislike or even loathe and when they're in stories I do want to read - I tend to try and accept that fictional people can be interesting to follow even if they're mildly dislikeable. Clara lies yes, but so do a lot of folk for reasons that sometimes even they can't explain, and it's interesting to try and follow in a story the why, wherefores and the fallout of people's faults (the sad thing is, though we like our characters faulty, we tend to be rather less fond of some faults than others:)

I think my main problem wouldn't be reading the Clara-centric fic, but finding any by writers who like (and therefore don't bash) her, but also acknowledge and tackle the faults that we see. A story that did that would prbably be what you would look for, but it's so hard to find...

[jaxomsride.livejournal.com]

A lot of the Clara aarc made no sense as the characters all seemed to act out of character. Moffat seems to have a thing about female characters and telling the truth in relationships, he did the same thing with Amy Pond with her relationship with Rory and the Doctor. What is wrong with having another male friend when you have a boyfriend anyway?

[kerravonsen]

What is wrong with having another male friend when you have a boyfriend anyway?

Indeed! She seemed to feel she had to choose between them when she didn't actually have to do so. I mean, I think Danny pegged it when he said that the Doctor was behaving like Clara's father, not like Clara's boyfriend.

[kerravonsen]

She's a chronic habitual liar, and that is not something that just happens. People who lie even when the truth makes more sense have something broken in them, and with Clara we never find out just why that is.

Yes. Yes.

One of the most painful things about the whole thing is that Danny asks her to stop lying, and she doesn't. It's doubly painful because the reason Danny gives is that if she lies, he can't help her, and not being able to help her will be too much for him to bear. And yet she still keeps on lying, even though he loves her so much. She is completely unworthy of him; he deserved better.

Is she a selfish bitch, or is she broken? I think one of my additional frustrations is that nobody seems to think that there's anything wrong with her.

Although I can imagine an interesting meta fic, in which she has always tried to tell the truth only to finding that lies come out instead, and she realizes she's being controlled by some unseen entity.

Heh, I wouldn't mind reading that. Though make it something Doctor-who-ish rather than meta. Thing is, the Clara that we met with Eleven wasn't a selfish bitch, wasn't a habitual chronic liar; she was quite likeable and capable. So she's behaving out of character, and still nobody cares!

(headdesk)