Doctor Who: Dark Water/Death in Heaven

[kerravonsen]

Doctor Who 8x11 Dark Water

Very belated.

What a fabulous con-job that was. Tricks upon tricks upon tricks. The beauty of it is that Missy is the only one who knows it's a con; her employees believe every word - at least Dr. Chang seems to. Seb is so smarmy it's a bit hard to tell.

Yeah, I'm not surprised that Missy is The Master. The first time someone suggested that "Missy" was short for "Mistress" and thus "The Master" I considered it possible, but I was not going to set my heart on that theory.

Still doesn't explain why Missy "chose" Clara. Unless it's... the Master does have a tendency to want to show off and gloat in front of the Doctor; thus engineering that Clara bring the Doctor to 3W at just the right time for gloating to happen. I've seen some people propose that that's really why the Master does everything: he wants the Doctor to notice him. Or her, as the case may be.
"The Doctor is my boyfriend".

Having a "Matrix-slice" I suppose explains not only how Missy could upload minds at the moment of death, but also how she could snatch people from different points of history. Uploading upon death seems a very likely ability of the Matrix, since it held the minds of every dead Time Lord ever, that would indicate that it could upload minds without having to be in close contact with them. Which brings us full circle, harking back to "The Bells of St John", where Clara was uploaded by somewhat less sophisticated technology (the Spoonheads needed to be within a few metres of their victim on order to upload them).

It's interesting how the Master's schemes have evolved over the years, now that I think about it. Not that he's ever lost the taste for elaborate con-jobs. But early on, he had a tendency to make alliances with powerful baddies who would then turn on him. The New-Who Master has tended to build his own minions: the Toclophane (rather similar scenario to this current one, now that I think about it: conning poor humans to allow him to turn them into cyborgs), starting his own cult, the everyone-in-the-world-is-the-Master thing (which was really silly), and now turning dead bodies into cybermen with herself as their controller. Though one would think, if they were standard cybermen, their programming would make them want to cyberize Missy. We don't know how much she fiddled with the cyber technology before using it.

I just realized... Dr. Chang did actually mention the "exoskeleton" when he was talking about the dead. This either means that (a) he's never seen the actual exoskeletons or (b) he's never seen cybermen (implication: he's not from the present era). Of course, we'll never know now, since he's dead (and I'm not sure whether he would have been uploaded or not).

Um, were we ever told what the three "W" words were? Because "Don't cremate me" doesn't have any "w" words in it.


Doctor Who 8x12 Death in Heaven

Oh wow. I'm speechless. Oh my oh my.

Too much to go over, really. I know I'm going to miss things. Oh my.

Master/Missy's obsession knows no bounds, really. Diabolical, to give that choice to the Doctor.

"I'm not a good man! I'm not a bad man! I'm not a hero! I'm not a President! And no, I'm not an officer! You know who I am? I am an idiot." (pause) "With a box and a screwdriver, passing through, helping out. And I don't need an army, I never have."

No, he never has. That's why "When a Good Man Goes To War" is really... out of character, IMHO. The Seventh Doctor's "unlimited rice pudding" speech is much more the thing.

I like how they set up the Brigadier rescuing Kate: just that one line, Kate saying "Everyone in history?" I knew she was thinking of her father.
Part of the reason this works so well is because it isn't the first time someone has overcome their cyberization because of love: we have the example of Craig in "Closing Time" who overcame it when he heard his son Alfie crying.

"Love is not an emotion. It's a promise." Oh YES.

So much sadness. Death of the geeky girl. Darn it, Doctor, never offer someone a ride in the TARDIS until you've finished saving the day! Ten to one whoever-it-is will die before they get a chance to come with you.

Oh you silly people, Doctor and Clara; telling each other lies in order to not make the other one sad... and if you'd only told the truth, you could have comforted each other. Silly people. So much sadness.

BANG! BANG! BANG! "You can't just end it like that." Ah, Mr. Moffat, you took the words out of my mouth.

At least there is Christmas to look forward to.

I need a twelfth Doctor icon, darn it!

Comments

[travels_in_time]

I think 3W just stands for "Three Words", which were "Don't cremate me." Maybe (but probably not) also an underhanded nod to www, since everything was virtual.

[kalypso]

That was my understanding - it's like "eight letters, three words, one meaning" = "I love you". Chang presents the real words as so terrifying that they have to be described as indirectly as possible.

I love the idea that it's also a reference to www!

[kerravonsen]

Ah, I see. Yes, that makes sense.

[kalypso]

Oh, hurrah, I'd been waiting to find out what you thought, and I'm very glad that you enjoyed them. But I'm also glad that you share my puzzlement about the Missy's plot with Clara... I really can't make sense of it. It seems to be something to do with her being a control freak who'd ask him to go to hell - but the Doctor and Clara never actually got as far as hell, interpreting that loosely as the Nethersphere, and if the plan was simply to offer the Doctor a Cyber-army, all Missy had to do was create the army, let it stamp around Earth a bit and wait for the Doctor to notice!

[kerravonsen]

and if the plan was simply to offer the Doctor a Cyber-army, all Missy had to do was create the army, let it stamp around Earth a bit and wait for the Doctor to notice!

Ah, but I don't think the plan was simply that. Missy wanted to prove that the Doctor was like her, and get him to admit it. That meant that Missy had to put the Doctor through the emotional wringer, manipulate the hell out of him. Hence, Clara, someone who could get the Doctor to do the unthinkable and forbidden. If the Doctor did the unthinkable and forbidden, then he could no longer stand on his high horse and declare himself to be "good"; he would have to admit that he was just as evil as Missy.

[kalypso]

Well, when I say "simply", that's obviously the Master's version of simply, which involves contorted complications... The obvious unthinkable and forbidden would be to bring Danny back from the dead (assuming that it's a fixed point, or that they do it knowing he's going to bring something very nasty back with him). And he does return, if only as a partially completed Cyberman, though not really through any direct action of the Doctor and Clara. Was the conversion supposed to be complete, as Seb was putting such pressure on Danny to delete his emotions? Or was that conditioning - they always intended to send him back just before he pressed the button, so that there'd be enough Danny left to lure Clara, but he'd have the idea implanted in his mind that removing his emotions was the only way to end his pain? Missy expects Clara to summon the Doctor, but what is she expecting her to demand? The complete restoration of Danny, or what they actually ask for - the suppression of his emotions? If the latter, presumably Missy believes that Cyber-Danny will kill Clara, because that's what the Doctor expects. Which would work as an emotional wringer, and make the Doctor feel very guilty, but I'm not sure it would make the point that he's as evil as Missy. I need a more obvious choice of two evils. The one Missy offers - take an army, or let it do bad things under my command - isn't quite enough, because the Doctor could give the same order as Danny, for the Cybermen to burn in the atmosphere, as the original owners of the bodies and minds would prefer to save Earth and then going back to being peacefully dead. Or is he unable to make that choice, because he feels obliged to preserve sentience (see River)?

[kerravonsen]

In order for Missy to have controlled the timing of all this... Danny's death could not have been an accident. Missy had to have arranged it.

That being said, I don't think Missy cared one way or another whether Danny pushed the button to delete his emotions, because as far as she was concerned, it was a win/win situation; you either have a Danny in agony, or a Danny who will kill Clara. A Danny who would not kill Clara was not something she anticipated. Neither did the Doctor.

The one Missy offers - take an army, or let it do bad things under my command - isn't quite enough, because the Doctor could give the same order as Danny, for the Cybermen to burn in the atmosphere, as the original owners of the bodies and minds would prefer to save Earth and then going back to being peacefully dead. Or is he unable to make that choice, because he feels obliged to preserve sentience (see River)?

The key difference between Danny giving the order and the Doctor giving the order - a point Danny made in his speech - was that Danny was a fellow soldier. He was sacrificing himself along with them. Danny was not a general giving an order. If the Doctor had done it, the Doctor would have been a general giving an order. "What's wrong with that," you say, "since the outcome would have been the same?" But it wouldn't have been the same to the Doctor. He would have considered it murder, and, yes, that would have made him feel just as evil as Missy. Thing is... I think one of the key differences between good and evil is that a good person sacrifices themself, and an evil person sacrifices others -- and before you say "Well, the Doctor has sacrificed others" yes he has, but they usually volunteer, and that makes it self-sacrifice. Ordering the Cybermen to kill themselves when they have no choice... perhaps the Doctor didn't think of it because it was unthinkable to him.

It's like the difference between Clara killing Missy and the Doctor doing it. It needed to be done, but the Doctor spared Clara the blood on her hands. Sacrificing the Cybermen needed to be done, but Danny spared the Doctor the blood on his hands. And Danny's hands weren't that bloody, because he shed his own blood at the same time.

[watervole]

I was also thinking that Missy had to have caused Danny's death.

[kalypso]

I think Missy killed Danny in order to spring the trap. But I think she needs Clara alive as long as possible for the trap to work; the one thing that was clear to me about her Clara-plan was that she was waiting for Clara to ring the Doctor and demand his help, which depended on Cyber-Danny rescuing her from St Paul's. If Clara dies early on... well, I suppose you'd have Cyber-Clara, to go with Dalek-Oswin, and that might be a plan.

And it's clearly very important to the Doctor throughout this season to avoid anything that might be mistaken for a military role - it's Danny's accusation that he's an officer that really needles him, and Danny's still trying that in the finale, with his jibes about the blood-soaked old general. So Danny being prepared to take responsibility, as a soldier, gets him off the hook (though does he fear that Danny was right and he was just trying to keep his own hands clean?)

But I still can't splice the two halves of Missy's plan together. Manipulate him through Clara and her grief, yes; present him with the power of an army, yes (as I've said elsewhere, that's Temptation in the Wilderness stuff). But Clara's grief is personal, not political; there's no sign of her wanting him to take the army. The personal connection between the two halves provides the Doctor with a solution, but I'm still not getting what Missy thought she was doing. Have you got there now on why she chose Clara?

[kalypso]

In case you don't pick up the rec elsewhere, do try this: The Mind Is Its Own Place, a subtle piece on Toshiko in the Nethersphere.

[jhall1.livejournal.com]

Um, were we ever told what the three "W" words were?

I think we were but - alas - my increasingly lousy memory can't recall what the words stood for.

I share your sadness at the death of the geeky girl (Osgood), whom I was hoping my be the next Companion. But it's been suggested that Missy might not have vaporised her but have teleported her somewhere instead, if visually the two effects are almost indistinguishable - OK, it's a very big "if". (Just as Missy presumably did with herself at the end of the episode.)

[kerravonsen]

No, I think Osgood is really dead. Won't prevent fanfic, though.

[jaxomsride.livejournal.com]

It was a great season finale. Yes, I felt like banging their heads together at the end too.

I don't think we were ever told what the three "W"s were.

I'm also wondering what the significance of the blue light as opposed to the orange light from the device. When Missy killed Osgood the light from the device was orange and there was a heap of dust on the floor. When the Doctor killed Missy the light was blue and the was no dust.

[kerravonsen]

Red is dead. Dr. Chang got hit with the red light too.

[astrogirl2.livejournal.com]

Um, were we ever told what the three "W" words were? Because "Don't cremate me" doesn't have any "w" words in it.

Those were the words. 3W stands for "3 words," not "3 words beginning with W."

[kerravonsen]

Ah, I see!

[dreamflower]

I actually was hoping that Missy was the Rani. Oh well, a gender-swapped Master is also a fun thing.

I did love the nod to fanon in the Mistress's Mary Poppins get-up. I first heard the "Mary-Poppins-is-a-Time-Lord" was in a Yuletide fic, but I've seen the trope elsewhere as well.

Sad, sad, sad that they were lying at each other at the end. I would have been glad to smack some sense into both of them.

Father Christmas! Yay!