kerravonsen | Truth and Linguistics

Current Mood: pensive
Current Music: Saint Saens

Entry tags:

Truth and Linguistics

Interesting quote from the book I'm currently reading(*):
Their [human] language is equally confusing. Who can believe what they say if every word has several meanings?

Which makes one wonder... for of course, in human languages, one can lie while telling the truth. Yet what a poor language it would be if words had only one meaning.

Does poetry lie in ambiguity? Or does poetry lie in ambiguity?

(*) "City of Pearl" by Karen Traviss

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

City of Pearl? Is this a sequel to the wonderful City of Diamond by Jane Emerson, who I know has been ill? Avon, Vila, and Soolin avatars!

And speaking of avatars, yes, Duv Galeni is Avonic in Brothers in Arms but I've just found a blonde Servalan in The Vor Game: Livia Niu (wonderful name) AKA Cavilo. :-)

City of Pearl? Is this a sequel to the wonderful City of Diamond by Jane Emerson, who I know has been ill?

No, absolutely nothing to do with that, apart from the coincidence of having "City of" in the title. I haven't heard of "City of Diamond".

I recommend it highly--if you can find it. The first few scenes made me think, "Oh no, not another feudal aristocracy in space," but it's much more. The ship--and galactic--society is so complex, much of it's left merely hinted at and the reader wants more. Fascinating universe and vivid, engaging characters. Also, neither they nor the story is predictable. :-)

What's Pearl about then? Presumably not a city-sized spaceship?

BTW I'm enjoying the Vorkosigan stories a lot, despite the rampant said-phobia (I really hate 'opined' 'intoned', 'allowed', and 'supplied' in particular). On their strength, I borrowed The Curse of Chalion but it's slow and plodding, the characters lack the vibrant life of the Vorverse ones, and the conversation is so stilted. Just because people lived in the past (OK, a fantasy feudal one) doesn't mean they didn't speak colloquially. Have you read that?

Fascinating universe and vivid, engaging characters.

Sounds intriguing. Mind you, feudal aristocracies in space can be interesting, if you've got Byzantine politics to go with it. Look at Dune...

What's Pearl about then? Presumably not a city-sized spaceship?

Definitely not! 8-)
I've just finished it, and I really like it. I kept on expecting it to fall into well-worn SF tropes, and it kept on pleasantly surprising me. I don't really want to give examples of the surprises, because that would spoil it.

The scenario in the book is that it's a couple of centuries hence. There's cyberpunkish technology, but that's just part of the background, which also involves mega-corps and eco-terrorism. Our Heroine is a cop who is a month away from retirement. And suddenly she's assigned to a mission to go off to another starsystem, 75 years away (cryo, no FTL, 150 years round trip) to find out what's happened to a colony of Christian Fundamentalists whom everyone assumed had perished, but apparently they haven't. And then when she gets there she finds that the humans aren't the only ones there... three intelligent alien species, and not all of them like each other, and the humans caught in the middle... But it wasn't the politics that appealed to me, it was the characters.

I'm going to buy the sequel tomorrow.

I borrowed The Curse of Chalion ... Have you read that?

Oh yes. I liked it a lot, because I really liked the main character. I didn't find it plodding at all, I'm at home with archaic language -- in fact, I find it jarring if something which is set in a feudal landscape has modern language. It was an intriguing bit of world-building too, since it wasn't your bog-standard fantasy world (most fantasy worlds are either superficially Christian or rampantly pantheistic, and this was neither).
I didn't like "Paladin of Souls" as much, mainly because Cazaril wasn't there!

I feel differently about language. They speak their own (Ibran or whatever) so why can't it be 'translated' into modern English for the reader? And Cazaril isn't in the next one? But... but... I like him most of all! The Roknari looks interesting though.

City of Pearl sounds fascinating, esp if it was the characters that appeal (I'm not thrilled by mega-corps or eco-terrorism). I'll add it to my list of books to read. :-)

Not like Chalion? But... but... I found it deeply absorbing. Cazaril is wonderful! But then, I prefer fantasy, and have no interest in the Vorkosigan books.

I'm wondering if it's the formality of the language which

vilakins is finding to be a barrier rather than part of the world-building.

It is! I also get tired of sexist societies being the norm in fantasy.

And yet when people try to do the reverse, and write matriarchies (in SF or F), they usually look like oppressive patriarchies with the labels switched. Which is just as bad.

Agreed. That's sexist too. What's wrong with equality, as Bujold has in her Betan society? In my future (unwritten original novels) people are judged by their ability, not their sex.

I'm persisting with it. I do like Cazaril (wise and gentle man) but I feel oddly detached from most of the characters. I think the formal language has that effect on me. It's an interesting world, but I do wish people could imagine something other than the hackneyed old feudal sexist society; she uses that model for Barrayar too. The religion is fresh and interesting though.

Don't worry if I don't respond for a while; I'm off to bed now. [realises] But what are you doing up?

::scratches head:: I suppose one difference is that I like formal language a lot, and it seems particularly appropriate here since most characters are members of the nobility, rather than the everyday folk. I also tend to like books where religious faith is portrayed as a positive, meaningful part of the characters' lives.

And I'm up because I'm too lazy to go to bed. Going now.

Just thought I'd tell you both that I'm enjoying 'Curse of Chalion' a lot more now. I liked Cazaril from the start, but it seemed to take a while to get going, though I was also fascinated by Umegat when he appeared. Even more so now that Dondo's dead (avoiding spoilers here) and things are getting very interesting. The religious aspect is very inventive.

Is the sequel worth getting if Cazaril isn't in it? Do any of these characters appear?

The sequel is probably worth getting. While I didn't enjoy it as much as the first one, it did take one of the minor characters from the first book and took them on a journey (a physical one, and a journey of self) and made them a lot more interesting... And the religion got even more inventive. And it puts paid to the idea that only the young have adventures (grin).

I'll give it a go next year. When you say 'more interesting', you imply they weren't so much before, so it can't be Umegat; pity. The only old person I can think of is Nan or the thumbless groom.

She does have a thing with hands, doesn't she? All her characters use them a lot.

I'm trying not to spoil, especially as you haven't finished the first book, and my cryptic remarks are probably just confusing you. No, the person isn't *old*, they're just not *young*. I can't really say why "more interesting" because it would be a spoiler.

OK, you may have sucked me in. :-) I'm hoping to have at least a month off: lots of reading time!

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Truth and Linguistics

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject