kerravonsen: from "The Passion", Christ's head with crown of thorns: "Love" (Christ)
[personal profile] kerravonsen
I was pondering bible-studies I had participated in, and I realised something. Many Christians just sit around in bible-studies and wait to be told what to think. How totally bizarre! What do they think bible-studies are for? A place where someone in authority (the leader) spoon-feeds them pre-digested doctrine, and then they have a cup of tea and a gossip?

Don't they want to find out for themselves? Do they think themselves incapable of finding out for themselves? Or not qualified? Or not authorised? Or is it just like too much hard work? It's a text. Read it. Think about what it says. Figure out what it means. Like we did in English at school.

What do they teach them at these schools?

Yeah, I know. They teach them to hate learning.

Thank God for fandom, where people analyse texts in minute detail, for fun.

Date: 2016-12-02 02:23 am (UTC)
travels_in_time: Sherlock's shocked face (SH--Sherlock what is this I don't even)
From: [personal profile] travels_in_time
Our small groups tend to be a lot like my high-school English classes...I wait around a while to see if anyone has an opinion, finally put my hand up and voice mine, wait for other opinions or rebuttals or someone, anyone, to make me think of something I hadn't already thought of or see something in a different way...and nothing. People nod and move on.

I'm not here to tell you what to do or think, people! Iron is supposed to sharpen iron, right? I can't get sharpened when I'm just slicing marshmallows!

Date: 2016-12-01 11:42 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] reynardo.livejournal.com
Yeah, but as someone who *has* asked questions in Bible Study (and who was a Christian at the time), I got told I couldn't possibly question the subject because I wasn't an expert in it, and my friend who invited me was asked if I really *was* a Christian because I didn't just accept the Word.

So it will depend totally on the group, I'm afraid.

(I discovered later that my question was actually pretty accurate and did pertain to an important point in translation)

Date: 2016-12-03 10:46 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] reynardo.livejournal.com
That was actually the Anglicans.

The Pentecostals just tried to exorcise me. Much more direct.

Date: 2016-12-01 11:47 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] helenarickman.livejournal.com
Oh, you've pushed my buttons! I hate this so much.

It amazes me that intelligent people accept what is told them by the doctrine of their church because they feel they have to accept it on 'faith.'

I may be one of the most religious people you'll meet and I'm all 'BS' about that. God gifted us with a brain and he/she/it expects us to use it. For me, the more I try to intelligently decipher doctrine, the more I'm able to accept it. I refuse to accept it on someone's word alone.

Sorry, hijack post. I can get preachy.

Date: 2016-12-02 12:58 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jaxomsride.livejournal.com
I've never done Bible studies outside RE lessons at school. There it very much depended on the teacher we had, but most did not encourage too much "questioning of Faith". It wasn't so much discussion of doctrine as indoctrination.

Date: 2016-12-02 11:23 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] reapermum.livejournal.com
I think of theology and quantum physics in the same way, I can't understand either beyond the edges. But I will take on faith what the experts who know tell me about both. And neither has the full story yet, and probably never will do here on earth.

On problem I have with bible studies is the fact it has gone through several languages before it reached me. And each translation was provided by mankind, which is fallible. So anything that depends on precise wording can be questioned, we need to get to the underlying truth of what God is telling us.

Date: 2016-12-02 12:18 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] reapermum.livejournal.com
Several? Modern translations don't translate into intermediary languages

I was thinking intermediate languages and versions before we get the fixed text of the bible. For example, I doubt the parables were told in Greek. So there'll be the original words straight from Jesus himself, then what his followers remembered of what they heard, both in Aramaic. Then translating it into Greek and probably editing to get a version everyone could agree to, before getting to the version that was translated into English.

Date: 2016-12-02 12:44 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] reapermum.livejournal.com
I'm sure I was taught that Aramaic was the language that the ordinary people were speaking at the time, Greek was what the top people used.

Like only the top people speaking French in Norman Britain, the ordinary people continued with English.

Or is that not current thinking? There's been 50 years of gathering new evidence since then.

Date: 2016-12-02 02:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] reapermum.livejournal.com
I agree the gospels were written in Greek, but I always thought that was so there was a text to take up to all those churches St Paul had founded.

I knew I'd read something recently, a modern book on the Arab conquests. It claimed that despite centuries of Greek rule, everyday use of Greek was an urban habit, the villages at the time of the arrival of the Arabs in the 7thC still spoke Aramaic, just as Coptic was still the language of Egypt.

Date: 2016-12-03 12:45 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] reapermum.livejournal.com
That we probably can be sure of. :~)

Date: 2016-12-03 11:46 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sue-bursztynski.livejournal.com
If you want a religion that actually encourages you to argue, drop in on a Jewish Bible studies class. That's why there are so many books and interpretations and interpretations of interpretations. That's why we have so many lawyers and scientists. They know how to argue.

Kathryn, I very much doubt Yeshua of Nazareth spoke Greek, even Koine. It certainly wouldn't have been the everyday language of the Jewish population. Aramaic was much more likely. The fact that the Gospels were written long after his time, however, suggests that perhaps you may be right about the language. I do think, however, that there would have been a lot of translating and rewriting over the centuries.

Date: 2016-12-04 06:57 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sue-bursztynski.livejournal.com
There's a saying: "Two Jews, three opinions." It applies both to religious and secular arguments. It's how the kids learn.

Date: 2016-12-04 09:11 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] vjezkova.livejournal.com
I liked this post very much!

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Kathryn A.

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